Holland's Race Policy A Failure

[Morgan]

I thought this article might make for a good discussion thread on how Holland's multiculturalism policy. Could the problems have been prevented through an "old-fashioned" melting pot [assimilation] policy re: immigration? Does the Dutch experience hold any implications or cause any second thoughts for you re:Canada's policy of multiculturalism?Holland's 30 year race policy a failure, Telegraph, Jan.20/04

Holland's 30-year experiment in trying to create a tolerant, multicultural society has failed and led to ethnic ghettos and sink schools, according to an official parliamentary report.

Between 70 and 80 per cent of Dutch-born members of immigrant families import their spouse from their "home" country, mostly Turkey or Morocco, perpetuating a fast-growing Muslim subculture in large cities.The 2,500-page all-party report by the Dutch parliament was the establishment's tentative answer to the critique of Pim Fortuyn, the shaven-headed firebrand who warned that Holland's easy-going way of life was threatened by militant Islam and over-crowding. He was assassinated by an environmental activist two years ago.

While the report praised most immigrants for assimilating and for doing well at school, it attacked successive governments for stoking ethnic separatism.The worst mistake was to encourage children to speak Turkish, Arabic or Berber in primary schools rather than Dutch.

The report concluded that Holland's 850,000 Muslims must become Dutch if the country was to hold together. It proposes cheap housing in the leafy suburbs to help ethnic groups assimilate with the rest of the 16 million population.

The major parties in the centre-Right government dismissed such solutions as insufficient. Maxime Verhagen, the Christian Democrat leader in parliament, said one had to be "either naive or ignorant" not to understand that the policy had led the country into a cul-de-sac.He said: "Immigrants in the Netherlands top the 'wrong' lists - disability benefit, unemployment assistance, domestic violence, criminality statistics and school and learning difficulties."

For years Holland was seen as a glowing example of multi-ethnic tolerance, making huge efforts to make immigrants feel at home. Funding was provided for ethnic diversity projects, including 700 Islamic clubs that are often run by hard-line clerics.The simmering resentments erupted two years ago when Mr Fortuyn gave voice to an increasingly fearful majority.

The European Union's Racism and Xenophobia Monitoring Centre has catalogued a rash of anti-Muslim attacks, leaving girls too frightened to go out wearing head scarves.The violence has taken a more ominous turn since the September 11 attacks. The Dutch intelligence service, AIVD, has warned that the al-Qa'eda network is "stealthily taking root in Dutch society" by preying on disaffected Muslim youth with Jihad video cassettes circulating in mosques, cafes and prisons.

Rotterdam has announced measures to deter more poor immigrants and is closing its gates to new asylum seekers for four years.

[KrustyKidd]

No sense having an immigrant come to a new land and expecting him or her to change. Might make for a unified society or something terrible like that. Better to have hundreds or thousands of independent communities separated by language, culture and ideals.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear KK and Morgan,

The Melting Pot vs. Mosaic are not that much different, truth be told. The immigrant goes where they can be understood, both linguistically and culturally. Barrios, Chinatowns, and Bungal-adesh exist in almost every city in North America. English is, now, heavily influenced by foreign words. Perhaps this diversity will even lead to a more 'common tongue' that will include words from every country and culture. It's progress will only be impeded by the 'coalition of the un-willing to learn'.

[udawg]

There's nothing wrong with diversity, as long as people are [place citizenship here] first, and [place ethnicity, nation of origin, or religion here] second.

One of the biggest problems facing Canada today is that many new immigrants, after moving to Canada, gaining citizenship, getting jobs, etc, still see themselves as Iranian, German, Algerian, or whatever, before Canadian. There is no instilled sense of pride or allegiance to our country. Canada, for many, is simply a meal ticket.

Diversity, I don't have a problem with. Disloyalty, I do.

[SirRiff]

i am as pro-multicultural and immigrant as you can get, my own parents came to canada in the early 70s and made thier life.

but even i demand that people FIRST syncronize with the national culture and language so as to at least be able to funtion as part of the larger society. after that, if they want to maintain thier own culture, i say let them. but, by forced exposure to the domestic culture first, i think it would be the best of both worlds, moderate yet diverse.

nothing wrong with a country expecting people to immerse themselves in local culture as part of the deal of a new life. intra-national culture is very important.

[Craig Read]

I lived in Holland 7 years in downtown Amsterdam. Their immigration and multi-cultural policies are failures. Whole areas exist in Rotterdam and Amsterdam where little dutch is spoken and alienation is rife. Most crime is Muslim based, with the exception of the mafia that controls prostitution and drugs. Social services are inundated with poor immigrant support and the unemployment amongst the minorities were in the 30 % + range when i was there. Many immigrants in Holland from the Near East do not feel dutch, do not speak it that much, and due to lack of cultural/educational/linguistic integration have a much tougher time at finding jobs. In short they are not European but misplanted and resentful Muslims.

The 'multi-tiered' system so beloved by Canadians leads to social breakdown and disrespect for the receiving country.

It also inevitably leads to dancing in the ghettos after an event like 9-11.

[Hohenzollern]

I live in the US and it is so annoying having so many people who don't speak English, or speak it clearly at any rate. There should be immigration laws that require immigrants to be able to speak English, or Dutch in the situation in the Netherlands.

Also, the existance of ghettos is a bad thing because the allow people to think that it is ok to speak in a different language other that the language of the country of their current residnece. That is not good since it makes it harder for them to be accepted into the general society of their new home. Creating ethnic hate groups against them. That creates problems for the government, costing them more taxpayers dollars to increase security, which leads to general dissent among the native populace, and thus resenting foreigners even more.

I STRONGLY dislike the amounts of immigration from Islamic countries into European countries since they are not truly welcomed there. For instance, the Turkish workers in Germany are unwelcomed because Germany has been rebuilt and they are no longer welcome. So now Turks are becoming desperate and Neo-Nazis are on the prowl waiting to beat them up.

The situation in Europe does not look good. Remember that the racists of America are generally of European descent. Not to say that most Europeans are racists, but there are enough to make Europe an unfriendly palce for immigrants.

[righturnonred]

Remember that the racists of America are generally of European descent.

I disagree. While it may seem counter intuitive, it is in fact minority groups who display the greatest amount of racism in America today. Most anglo (white) people in this country would prefer to live in a more or less color blind society and simply do not see the logic of making determinations about ones character based on the color of their skin.

In contrast, many minority groups, blacks in particular who are literally obsessed with skin color, wish to use race to their advantage at every opportunity because they believe that the crimes of slavery and institutional discrimination perpetrated against their predecessors generations ago is responsible for their downtrodden status today and hence entitles them to preferential treatment.

This represents the core of the "victim mentality" and unfortunately this negative racist perspective prevents many minorities from dealing with and solving the real problems that plauge their communities. Just as is the case with the Palestinians, it is much easier to vent ones frustration upon a convienient scape goat rather than to undertake the difficult and humbling task of confronting the actual debilitating social and cultural problems that keep these groups from achieving.

However, I think that race relations in Europe posses completely different dynamics than one finds in America.

[Rasputin]

Hohen welcome to the forum. Always good having a Yank on board. Funny enough you mentioned:

I STRONGLY dislike the amounts of immigration from Islamic countries into European countries since they are not truly welcomed there. For instance, the Turkish workers in Germany are unwelcomed because Germany has been rebuilt and they are no longer welcome. So now Turks are becoming desperate and Neo-Nazis are on the prowl waiting to beat them up.

I had the good fortune to date a turkish girl when i was in Stuttgart. Yes she was definitely looked down upon, except for her hot looks that is. Outside of that she had a rough time. Her German was excellent but not quite den zeer gute deutsche that the good burghers were used to. She had a hell of a time finding good employment. The Turks are no longer welcome in the land of Goethe was my conclusion back then. When one considers that 2nd/3rd generation turks speak german and don't feel turkish and are more german than say other recent immigrants, one only has to look at the arcane citizen laws to understand the apartheid system that can develop. Turks can't apply for citizenship unless they marry native born Germans. This is nonsense.

Assimilation is the key. In the US and Canada we don't do a good enough job of it. If Canada wants trouble like France and Germany creating a multi-cultural, minority rights based world is the way to go. In France the problems stem from Algerian / Islamic fundamentalism - the French have allowed too many rotten eggs into the country. The French oddly enough for a country of mealy mouthed socialists believe in assimilation [witness the recent head scarf regulations] but have imported through a poor system [which Canada's ressembles] un-needed Islamics who will not integrate into mainstream France. According to the Economist many soccer games witnessing booing by Muslims of the Marsaillaise. I have no idea why the French put up with that. Jail them, then deport them.

Right on, you mentioned

the core of the "victim mentality" and unfortunately this negative racist perspective prevents many minorities from dealing with and solving the real problems that plauge their communities. Just as is the case with the Palestinians, it is much easier to vent ones frustration

I agree and social liberalism can and will unravel society unless it is arrested. The complexity of social liberalism is that it crosses all gov't lines ie. levels. But Ottawa/Wash have to take the lead and ensure assimilation not bifurcation. There are so many votes to buy, the liberal media to appease and our gay loving feminine culture to impress [see how compassionate i am !] and so on.

Immigrants even illegals come here to win, work and succeed - at least the 20-40 % that are here on economic reasons. We need an immigration program based on economics and assimilation - not family or more like village reunification and welfare.