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Did the Holocaust really happen?


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Do you believe Hitler really killed 10 million people?   

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So let's look at your reasoning. You come on this forum to state two generalizations. The first states that ANY one who questions the holocaust is being accused of being an anti-semite.

That's not what I said. I quoted a specific post in this thread and responded to it.

You provide no examples of this making it clear this is a subjective generalization you render which is not based on objective and quatified fact but simply your subjective feelings. That Sir makes it suspect and quite frankly absurd as you are not in the position to speak for or assume anything about anyone's motives or thoughts but your own.

It's not based upon my subjective feelings, but based upon years of experience. And this thread only goes to demonstrate it even further.

You then state a deliberate anti-semitic slur

LMFAO :lol: What "anti-semetic slur"?

which is precisely the example of why people would accuse you NOT ANYONE else of being an anti-semite. It has nothing to do with questioning the holocaust and everything to do with you making a deliberate slur and choosing to engage in a negative generalization and characteristic you assign to all Jews.That Sir is bigoted and a blatant example of what is called out as anti-semitic.

Please show me this "anti-semitic slur"?

You came on this post to lecture people that they should engage in a dialectic process. So explain how making negative and absurd generalizations about what people think and what their motives are engages in a dialectic process. How is it anything but Jew baiting? How does it do anything but try incite intolerance and hatred of Jews and resentment towards Jews?

Are you referring to my statement "What the Jews want to do is silence all debate on this subject."?

I didn't say "all Jews". If I say, "Germans were Nazis", does this mean that all Germans were Nazis?

Obviously all Jews don't want to silence debate on the subject, that is why Orthodox Jews went to Iran to join a conference on the subject. I admire them for that.

Are you capable of discussing anything without race baiting or is that your agenda?

LOL, have you read anything that I've posted outside of this thread? Nothing I've said is "race baiting", but I'm sure you're blinded by your own hate that you see it as such. I simply pointed out the fact that there are Jews who want to silence all debate on the subject of the holocaust, and the promotion of holocaust denial laws by organizations such as the JDL and ADL demonstrates that fact.

Where?

Look yourself, I've posted all over this community on a variety of subjects that have absolutely nothing to do with Jews or the holocaust.

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And this is the reason you will never have an honest debate on this subject. Look at the reasoning: "If you 'question' the holocaust in any way, you are an 'anti-semite". Of course, anyone with any intelligence knows that the truth is arrived at through a dialectical process of debate. What the Jews want to do is silence all debate on this subject.

My only question is what is the political motivations for this course of action? And are all the people who value freedom going to allow them to get away with it?

What you're questioning is what British, American and Soviet troops saw with their own eyes, and what hundreds of thousands of survivors reported. I believe in people's right to deny the Holocaust; to me it goes with denying that March 21-22 and September 21-22 are equinoxes and June 21-22 and December 21-22 are solstices.
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Organizations such as the ADL and the JDL have conspired to accuse anyone who questions the holocaust as being anti-semetic. In fact, they've conspired to create laws to have these people put in jail.
Even though overall your views are despicable, I agree with you on hate crimes laws; I am ashamed that Jewish groups support them. They dont' speak for me, and I'm every bit as Jewish as they claim to be.
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What you're questioning is what British, American and Soviet troops saw with their own eyes, and what hundreds of thousands of survivors reported. I believe in people's right to deny the Holocaust; to me it goes with denying that March 21-22 and September 21-22 are equinoxes and June 21-22 and December 21-22 are solstices.

You're telling me that American, British, Canadian, Australian, Soviet.... troops saw 6 million people dead?

Are you claiming they went and counted the bodies, and counted 6 million people?

Are you claiming that in the bodies they found they were able to determine which ones were specifically Jewish?

Of the bodies they found, how many were determined by a medical examiner to have been posioned by gas?

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Even though overall your views are despicable, I agree with you on hate crimes laws; I am ashamed that Jewish groups support them. They dont' speak for me, and I'm every bit as Jewish as they claim to be.

What specifically in my overall views makes them "despicable"?

I give you credit for valuing a fundamental freedom that associations which claim to represent you want to take away from people. Maybe you should be lobbying the ADL and the JDL to repeal these laws in countries like Canada and Austria? I understand that you are a lawyer.

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wow.

have you done research that tells you otherwise socred?

Obviously, when yoru line of debate questions a historical fact, the burden of proof is upon the revisionist.

So you provide proof that 6 million did not die.

I will continue to watch your disgraceful acts.

btw, questioning the holocaust is not a crime in Canada.

Best you get simple facts straight if you want to question the holocaust don't you think?

lol

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What I find really interesting (and somewhat ironic) about this whole topic is the fact that the German people have acknowledged the Holocaust and what happened. Yet there are those who would doubt it even when confirmed by the perpetrators themselves.

It could be the result of ignorance of the subject or just general obnoxious behaviour.

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You're telling me that American, British, Canadian, Australian, Soviet.... troops saw 6 million people dead? Are you claiming they went and counted the bodies, and counted 6 million people? Are you claiming that in the bodies they found they were able to determine which ones were specifically Jewish?
I believe that the approximate Jewish population before the Holocaust was known. Unfortunately, the number after was even better known.
Of the bodies they found, how many were determined by a medical examiner to have been posioned by gas?
I believe that deaths by starvation, overwork, disease and abuse count as "Holocaust" deaths as well as those by poison gas. I think that the poison gassing accelerated near the end as the Nazis wanted to bequeath the heritage of a "Judenrein" world that you seem to desire so much even after the Axis' loss of the war.
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What specifically in my overall views makes them "despicable"?
Your palpable hatred of Jews.
I give you credit for valuing a fundamental freedom that associations which claim to represent you want to take away from people. Maybe you should be lobbying the ADL and the JDL to repeal these laws in countries like Canada and Austria? I understand that you are a lawyer.
I do lobby the ADL when I send their money solicitation, postage-paid business reply envelopes back with no check, and my frank views on the fascistic nature of the "hate laws" that they embrace. The JDL is an illegal extremist organization as lobbyable as Al Quaeda. Your hatred of Jews shows from your placing these two groups in an equivalent posture. Edited by jbg
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Man, nothing changes around here does it? :rolleyes:

Where did socred EVER deny that the Holocaust happened?? In fact, instead of innuendo and assumptions can anyone really find a quote of his which demonstrates that he 1. does not believe that the Jews were targetted in Nazi occupied Germany, OR 2. Hates Jews???

I don't think anyone really can.

No one here has ever expressed rabid hatred towards Jews the way the rampant hate fest rages on here about Muslims and Islam. It's ridiculous!! It REALLY is.

And, yet again, we have the rabid "YOU ARE AN ANTI-SEMITE, ANTI SEMITE, ANTI SEMITE... AHHHHH!!! YOU HATE ALL JEWS TOO!!!" Crowd whining their friggin' heads off!!

Pathetic.

Edited by buffycat
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Where did eyeball EVER deny that the Holocaust happened?? In fact, instead of innuendo and assumptions can anyone really find a quote of eyeball's which demonstrates that he 1. does not believe that the Jews were targetted in Nazi occupied Germany, OR 2. Hates Jews???

I don't think anyone really can.

Socred, not Eyeball.
No one here has ever expressed rabid hatred towards Jews the way the rampant hate fest rages on here about Muslims and Islam. It's ridiculous!! It REALLY is.
You don't see Jews condoning their miscreants the way Muslims do.
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You're telling me that American, British, Canadian, Australian, Soviet.... troops saw 6 million people dead?

Are you claiming they went and counted the bodies, and counted 6 million people?

Are you claiming that in the bodies they found they were able to determine which ones were specifically Jewish?

Of the bodies they found, how many were determined by a medical examiner to have been posioned by gas?

One thing about the Nazi's, they kept meticulous records. It wasn't just bodies they found but the mountains of personal effects, including things such things as human hair and gold fillings.

Their own records state the reason they started gassing people instead of shooting them was because they found shooting was too slow and expensive. There was also the problem of disposal. Gassing and the ovens were far more efficient. Germans have always been noted for finding practical solutions to problems.

As far as how many were Jews goes, one only has to look at the number of Jews living in Europe in 1933 compared to 1945 to get a good idea. You try to muddy the waters by saying that millions of non Jews died as well. That is true but it was the Jews who were specifically targeted for extinction.

I don't think the Nazis did autopsies on every person they murdered and they are rather difficult to do on someone who has been cremated.

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Man, nothing changes around here does it? :rolleyes:

Pathetic.

Was thinking the same thing re: you.

:lol:

That's nonsense and you damn well know it. Kahane ring a bell??? Gimme a break jbg - you CAN do better that the above whiney drivel.

Didn't Israel outlaw Kahane's party after the Cave of the Patriarchs? This after being banned from the Knesset in the 80s for being a racist political party (one seat held). Or is that Jews condoning their miscreants?? Either way, Kahane is dead...assassinated by one of the World Trade Center bomber 'suspects'.

Meanwhile, we have Hamas and Hezbollah...children's charity organizations.

socred: Of the bodies they found, how many were determined by a medical examiner to have been posioned by gas?

Many Jews, Roma, etc in the Balkans were rounded up into barns and then torched with a flamethrower. Not much left. That was the plan, though...no evidence. At Babi-Yar, they dug all the corpses up and burnt and ground them to dust when it looked like they'd be retreating from Kiev. I doubt the Nazis had plans to make a memorial to the dead Jews.

----------------------------------------------------------

Peace for us means the destruction of Israel.

---Nobel Prize winner, Yasser Arafat al-Husseini

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...including things such things as human hair and gold fillings.

Or lampshades.

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Dachauscrapb...s/IlseKoch.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilse_Koch

--------------------------------

The finished products (i.e. tattooed skin detached from corpses) were turned over to Koch's wife, who had them fashioned into lampshades and other ornamental household articles...

It is more interesting that Frau Koch had a lady's handbag made out of the same material. She was just as proud of it as a South Sea island woman would have been about her cannibal trophies.

---Stefan Heymann

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Corrected, thanks - I'm in a bit of a posting rush.

That's nonsense and you damn well know it. Kahane ring a bell??? Gimme a break jbg - you CAN do better that the above whiney drivel.

Kahane was roundly condemned in every Jewish circle I'm aware of and prosecuted/judged by Jews.
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Does it matter, they were bodies. The ones they found were mostly dead of starvation or disease. Much more humane than gassing what?
Holocaust deniers make a big deal about the fact that most people died of starvation or disease rather than gassing, since it gives them an opportunity to call people who use shorthand terms such as "6 million gas chamber victims" liars.
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Holocaust deniers make a big deal about the fact that most people died of starvation or disease rather than gassing, since it gives them an opportunity to call people who use shorthand terms such as "6 million gas chamber victims" liars.

If most people died of starvation and disease it would be important, at least as far as distinguishing between delibrate, state sponsored industrialised extermination of people and death by lack of food (unless this was deliberate) and poor living conditions, Stalin and Pol Pot provided much larger numbers of dead if that was the case.

Edited by Brain Candy
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Man, nothing changes around here does it? :rolleyes:

Where did socred EVER deny that the Holocaust happened?? In fact, instead of innuendo and assumptions can anyone really find a quote of his which demonstrates that he 1. does not believe that the Jews were targetted in Nazi occupied Germany, OR 2. Hates Jews???

I don't think anyone really can.

No one here has ever expressed rabid hatred towards Jews the way the rampant hate fest rages on here about Muslims and Islam. It's ridiculous!! It REALLY is.

And, yet again, we have the rabid "YOU ARE AN ANTI-SEMITE, ANTI SEMITE, ANTI SEMITE... AHHHHH!!! YOU HATE ALL JEWS TOO!!!" Crowd whining their friggin' heads off!!

Pathetic.

You're correct, I never denied that that the holocaust happened, and I've never stated how many Jews I believe were killed in WWII (probably between 300,000 and 6,000,000). One death is too many. What many people forget is that approximately 80,000,000 people were killed in WWII. One of them was my uncle, who was killed Christmas day in Orotona Italy, and was shot in the head by a Nazi sniper.

They cannot find anything that I've said where it demonstrates that I hate Jews, because I don't hate Jews.

What I hate is laws which are designed to limit our freedom of expression in such a way that nobody can investigate the truth about a subject, because the "truth" has been codified. Now anyone who questions that "truth" goes to jail. Sounds a bit like Soviet Russia does it not?

And if you defend people's right to free speech, even if they could be entirely incorrect, then you're an "anti-semite". Just like people who question the motives of political Zionism are labelled an "anti-semite". When did Zionism and semitism become equal, let alone Zionism and Judaism.

This is a political ploy, and organizations, which do indeed conspire, such as the ADL and JDL are leading this charge. Someday, it may be illegal to question the actions of the government of Isreal because that is "hate speech".

Edited by socred
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One thing about the Nazi's, they kept meticulous records.

Anyone who thinks that the names of 6,000,000 Jews were written down as they were killed and calculating the number of Jews killed was merely a matter of adding up the names on some magical list is an imbecile.

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You're correct, I never denied that that the holocaust happened, and I've never stated how many Jews I believe were killed in WWII (probably between 300,000 and 6,000,000). One death is too many. What many people forget is that approximately 80,000,000 people were killed in WWII. One of them was my uncle, who was killed Christmas day in Orotona Italy, and was shot in the head by a Nazi sniper.

They cannot find anything that I've said where it demonstrates that I hate Jews, because I don't hate Jews.

What I hate is laws which are designed to limit our freedom of expression in such a way that nobody can investigate the truth about a subject, because the "truth" has been codified. Now anyone who questions that "truth" goes to jail. Sounds a bit like Soviet Russia does it not?

And if you defend people's right to free speech, even if they could be entirely incorrect, then you're an "anti-semite". Just like people who question the motives of political Zionism are labelled an "anti-semite". When did Zionism and semitism become equal, let alone Zionism and Judaism.

This is a political ploy, and organizations, which do indeed conspire, such as the ADL and JDL are leading this charge. Someday, it may be illegal to question the actions of the government of Isreal because that is "hate speech".

Now you are dancing! good boy, keep it up!

Did you or did you not vote in this poll that the holocaust did not happen? At least have the courage of your convictions socred. Nothing worse than a cowardly holocaust denier.

There is no law in Canada that makes it a crime to deny or question the holocaust. You are fighting for a cause that does not exist. I'm sure that you know this and are just trying to cloud the eyes of the nieve.

You have also failed miserably to post any evidence that the holocaust did not happen.

In fact, I bet I could argue to the same effect that napoloeon (from your cute little quote) did not exist.

Deal? You bring out your facts that the holocaust did not happen as advertised and I will bring out my facts on why Napoloeon did not in fact exist. He is a myth. No such man ever existed. :lol:

Go!

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