Ontario Seeks "More Diverse" Prayer

[kengs333]

Yet another attack against Christianity in this country is taking place in Ontario where Premier McGuinty is seeking to have the Lord's Prayer that is recited each morning before legislature commences replaced with something "more diverse". History, tradition, and faith seem to have little significance in Canada, although Ontario always seems to have managed to hold on for just a little longer--out flag still bears the Union Jack (how long will that be the case)--and I guess it shouldn't come as a surprise that this is now happening. It's interesting how keen Canadians are in respecting other people's traditions, and have no problem in accepting that other countries and cultures can stubbornly hold on to "archaic" institutions (we even spend billions of dollars traveling to these places to experience these hallmarks of intolerance). Canada has it's own culture and heritage: Canada is a Christian country, founded by Europeans, with institutions based on European models; there is no reason why people who come to this country--regardless of where they come from--can't function and participate in our society without our traditions being constantly trashed or revised.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...Story/National/

[Drea]

"Dear Sky Daddy... please provide me and my family with the strength to continue hating those who we have labelled enemies, amen"

Does that about cover it? Diverse enough for yah?

[guyser]

Yet another attack against Christianity in this country

I guess if that were remotely true you might have a point.

We are not a christian country.Boo hoo. Get over it.

[DogOnPorch]

"Dear Sky Daddy... please provide me and my family with the strength to continue hating those who we have labelled enemies, amen"

Does that about cover it? Diverse enough for yah?

That's both disrespectful and combative. Personal attacks are frowned upon here, I believe.

We are not a christian country.Boo hoo. Get over it.

Canada was founded on the Judaeo-Christian ethic/tradition. That's just a fact you'll have to live with.

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What do I believe? As an American I believe in generosity, in liberty, in the rights of man. These are social and political faiths that are part of me, as they are, I suppose, part of all of us. Such beliefs are easy to express. But part of me too is my relation to all life, my religion. And this is not so easy to talk about. Religious experience is highly intimate and, for me, ready words are not at hand.

---Adlai Stevenson

[Drea]

well then let's go eat a Mohammed Cookie! Nothin' disprespectful about that, nothing in the Charter says we can't!

Sound good dog on porch?

I am mocked daily, called a fanatic etc, because I am an atheist. So too bad if you are offended by one little post in a whole sea of threads.

[Melanie_]

Yet another attack against Christianity in this country is taking place in Ontario where Premier McGuinty is seeking to have the Lord's Prayer that is recited each morning before legislature commences replaced with something "more diverse". History, tradition, and faith seem to have little significance in Canada, although Ontario always seems to have managed to hold on for just a little longer--out flag still bears the Union Jack (how long will that be the case)--and I guess it shouldn't come as a surprise that this is now happening. It's interesting how keen Canadians are in respecting other people's traditions, and have no problem in accepting that other countries and cultures can stubbornly hold on to "archaic" institutions (we even spend billions of dollars traveling to these places to experience these hallmarks of intolerance). Canada has it's own culture and heritage: Canada is a Christian country, founded by Europeans, with institutions based on European models; there is no reason why people who come to this country--regardless of where they come from--can't function and participate in our society without our traditions being constantly trashed or revised.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...Story/National/

I don't see any purpose in reciting the Lord's Prayer each morning in the legislature. It reminds me of the days when I was in school, when we had to recite the Lord's Prayer every morning after Oh Canada. It's an inappropriate imposition of religion in a secular setting, and the Ontario government is just catching up to the school system.

[DogOnPorch]

well then let's go eat a Mohammed Cookie! Nothin' disprespectful about that, nothing in the Charter says we can't!

Sound good dog on porch?

You're free to do as you like in that respect.

I am mocked daily, called a fanatic etc, because I am an atheist. So too bad if you are offended by one little post in a whole sea of threads.

I'm both politically and religiously agnostic: No supreme being for me/I believe in good government when I see it. You'd know that if you've read my profile. I'm not offended, either. This forum just has rules in regards to personal attacks and I think all of us, including you, should abide by them. Instead of 'attacking' what keng333 said...you attacked him. You could have been more like Melanie here in the previous post. She gets the same point across without leveling an attack at the poster. If I did the same as you, I'd expect someone to call me on it, too.

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Lisa: Do you even know what a rhetorical question is, Dad?

Homer: Do I know what a rhetorical question is???

---The Simpsons

[Drea]

Oh well.

Happy weekend!

[DogOnPorch]

Oh well.

Happy weekend!

Damn straight! As long as it doesn't snow like another 10 inches.

Like an aging hockey player, my back is pretty much done for the period...the game...and the rest of the season.

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He shoots! He scores!

---Don Chevrier (1938-2007)

[rbacon]

I wonder were we can buy Prophet Toilet paper.

[kengs333]

"Dear Sky Daddy... please provide me and my family with the strength to continue hating those who we have labelled enemies, amen"

Does that about cover it? Diverse enough for yah?

Thanks for your input, Drea. As usual, your insight and ability to elucidate your deep-seated hatred and hostility towards Christianity has made realize just how fortunate I am.

[kengs333]

I don't see any purpose in reciting the Lord's Prayer each morning in the legislature. It reminds me of the days when I was in school, when we had to recite the Lord's Prayer every morning after Oh Canada. It's an inappropriate imposition of religion in a secular setting, and the Ontario government is just catching up to the school system.

Well, Canada happens to be a Christian country, and it only makes sense that our politicians would seek God's guidance in governing the people of this province. Of course many of the politicians reciting the Lord's Prayer are only paying it lip-service as you no doubt did way way back when, and I suppose it is no wonder then that politics is the way that it is nowadays. As I'm sure you're aware of, the God that Christians believe in is THE God, the one true God, and that praying to Him is NOT an "inappropriate imposition," rather is simply what God expects of us.

[geoffrey]

Well, Canada happens to be a Christian country, and it only makes sense that our politicians would seek God's guidance in governing the people of this province.

Canada isn't a Christian country. That's a load of crap.

As I'm sure you're aware of, the God that Christians believe in is THE God, the one true God, and that praying to Him is NOT an "inappropriate imposition," rather is simply what God expects of us.

Then bow your head and pray to yourself. Religion has no place in state institutions. If someone believes in God, then they are free to pray to him and do whatever. Those that don't are free from the constant annoyances of religion. If a legislature needs religious guidance, then he can ask for it. But saying the Lord's prayer before a session is ridiculous and should have ended years ago.

[kengs333]

Canada isn't a Christian country. That's a load of crap.

It never ceases to amaze me that people can make such a statement. Do you have any understanding of Canadian history whatsoever?

[Drea]

Please enlighten us heathens as to how Canada is a "Christian" country.

"God" can mean anything to anyone... some people have names for it, some people feel it's bad to "name" it at all and some people think of it as a "concept" like "mother nature".

Please find some link that shows in the Charter (or other legislative document) that proves that we must worship Jesus the Christ.

Because we have imported our holidays from Europe... Christmas etc, does not mean that we were founded as a Christian nation. Immigrants brought their beliefs and celebrations with them (all sorts of beliefs).

If one were to really go back, say to before Europeans got here, then we would be worshipping crows as our anscestors. However silly that may sound, it is no more silly than a judge in the sky.

Kengs, you know that I believe all religion is bunk so why do you keep saying I am attacking Christianity? If you were Muslim I would still wish you weren't!

Cheers!

[Melanie_]

Well, Canada happens to be a Christian country, and it only makes sense that our politicians would seek God's guidance in governing the people of this province. Of course many of the politicians reciting the Lord's Prayer are only paying it lip-service as you no doubt did way way back when, and I suppose it is no wonder then that politics is the way that it is nowadays. As I'm sure you're aware of, the God that Christians believe in is THE God, the one true God, and that praying to Him is NOT an "inappropriate imposition," rather is simply what God expects of us.

I'm aware of no such thing. In fact, I think it is the height of arrogance to claim that any deity is the one true god, and that you know what that god expects of us. I have no issue with you choosing to live your life guided by your religious principles, just don't try to impose your principles on me, or the rest of the population via the government. The people who founded Canada may have been Christian, but that doesn't mean that all Canadians must adhere to Christianity.

[CanadianOak]

Hey guys,

Being a Hindu and a moderate liberal I'd like to shed some light on this issue and I'd say many Hindu Canadians don't have a problem with Lord's Prayer but many have a problem with prayer in public schools because it just doesn't make any sense when there is a clear seperation from Church and State and in a democratic country.

We also don't have a problem with "Merry Christmas" to be honest with you. I think there is a weird far-left movement of "Lets sympathize with these people etc." let me be honest and say we don't need any sympathy or empathy. The far-right has Canadians believe that the minorities are somehow destroying Canada by seeking more and more reform, let me tell you, majority of immigrants who are eligible to vote don't even vote, they are confused by the whole process here and are overwhelmed by the fact that there are only 1-day voting processes and no "priest" or anyone else ever says "Vote liberal" or "vote conservative" but rather spend time in religious discourses.

And as for secularity, Canada is FAR behind India on that terms. An Italian-born Woman party leader who gave her position to a Sikh Prime Minister who is governed by a Muslim President in a majority Hindu country. You don't see that in any other country.

[kengs333]

Kengs, you know that I believe all religion is bunk so why do you keep saying I am attacking Christianity? If you were Muslim I would still wish you weren't!

What are your opinions on Judaism?

[kengs333]

In fact, I think it is the height of arrogance to claim that any deity is the one true god,

Actually, God sent Jesus to clarify this issue. God is the one true God because God is the only god out there, so it's not arrogance, rather simply a statement of fact.

and that you know what that god expects of us.

What God expects of us is outlined in the New Testament. So again, it's not arrogance, rather simply the reality of the situation.

[DogOnPorch]

Drea: Please enlighten us heathens as to how Canada is a "Christian" country.

Didn't we just establish why back on page one?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Christian

Judeo-Christian (or Judaeo-Christian, sometimes written as Judæo-Christian) is a term used to describe the body of concepts and values which are thought to be held in common by Judaism and adapted by Christianity, and typically considered by some (sometimes along with classical Greco-Roman civilization) a fundamental basis for Western legal codes and moral values.

It really has NOTHING to do with you praying.

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Go, and do thou likewise...

---Jesus of Nazereth

[scribblet]

It never ceases to amaze me that people can make such a statement. Do you have any understanding of Canadian history whatsoever?

Whether people like it or not, this country is founded on Judeo Christian beliefs - the preamble to the constitution includes: "Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law." There was never any intent that Judeo-Christian values could not impact government policy.

If you doubt me, just go stand in front of the Peace Tower and read the Old Testament Scriptures that are carved into the stone above the three arches, or for that matter sing the national anthem.... "God keep our land glorious and free as we stand on guard for Thee".

The above-referenced verses read as follows:

1. He shall have dominion from sea to sea [who do you all think that He is referring to?

[Drea]

What are your opinions on Judaism?

The word "ALL"....

Should that have not given you a clue? ALL meaning every single religion that vilifies others... that'd be pretty much ALL of them.

Do I need to link a definition of "ALL" for you?

[Drea]

Actually, God sent Jesus to clarify this issue. God is the one true God because God is the only god out there, so it's not arrogance, rather simply a statement of fact.

No it's not a "fact".

The "fact" is that no one has ever seen or heard from the entity who allegedly created everything. Never. Not once. The fiction you read is just that, fiction.

And if you want to take the bible literally, who was god speaking to when he said "Let us make man in OUR image?" Who did Adam and Eve's children marry? Who were the "sons of god" who mated with "the daughters of earth"?

Angels you say? Guess that means god was not really alone was he? What a liar! (or perhaps the infallable humans that took stylus in hand and wrote the thing were lying or...) LOL

What God expects of us is outlined in the New Testament. So again, it's not arrogance, rather simply the reality of the situation.

You can rationalize it all you want, call it "reality", but the reality is that no one has or ever will see the alleged entity.

Edited February 19, 2008 by Drea

[Borg]

You can rationalize it all you want, call it "reality", but the reality is that no one has or ever will see the alleged entity.

Despite my personal beliefs remaining my own I will have to say that a very small, old man who probably weighed less than 90 pounds gave me some insight once. He worshipped the Goddess Tara. He gave me a statuette painted green for protection.

We were at the 14K level and I was struggling to breathe under a fairly heavy load.

I asked him how he could believe in something he had never seen. He just smiled and told me he had never seen gravity either.

He kicked my ass climbing that day - and his pack was as heavy as mine.

Drea - you are quite welcome to your beliefs - I think I simply find your rabid attacking of beliefs many have lived with in this country - and come to accept as part of their "Christian" heritage distasteful.

Have a nice day.

Borg

[M.Dancer]

That's both disrespectful and combative. Personal attacks are frowned upon here, I believe.

Canada was founded on the Judaeo-Christian ethic/tradition. That's just a fact you'll have to live with.

Actually we were founded by a much more tangible tradtition, mercantilism. I don't even think the catch all prase, "Judaeo-Christian" was even used in the 18th and 19th century. The founders were probably more concerned with the conflicts between antidisestablishmentarianism and presbytarianism/rome that any notion of a shared ethos.

The legal heritage we share that came from the colonials is the common law, which has more pagan saxon roots than anything given post hoc from Jerusalem.