Us Is Superior Vs. Canada

[Craig Read]

Canada, which will be renamed soon to Canadance, in honour of its fast friendship with the wonderful, non corrupt, enlightened and intelligent government of France, suffers from the rot of adolescent penis envy vis a vis the USA.

Consider the following:

-Canada free rides off the US military, US technology and health sectors and its drug industry

-The US has the 2nd highest living standards in the world - Canada falling to about 15th

-Canada has the 2nd lowest military spend in NATO and if you normalise military spend Canada would be running 3.5 % deficits.

-Cdn tax rates are 30 % above US rates.

-Cdn standard of living is dropping [it has been dropping since 1970], to 30 % below US levels.

-Cdn wage rates are in general for most professions quite a bit lower than US rates [see brain drain].

-Cdn social liberalism is creating a European styled culture of egotistical self actualisers devoid of responsibility, morality and full of pious post modern nonsense centred on the belief that 'nothing matters.

Canada has no vision, no purpose, no philosophy.

Unless it reforms itself, wakes up, grows up and joins the adult table internationally while enacting widespread constitutional, economic and political reform, Canada will end up like France.

Irrelevant -- or for the post moderns - bien passe.

[Hugo]

Canada, which will be renamed soon to Canadance

Great! I vote Michael Flatley be the first Prime Minister of this wonderous new country.

[Craig Read]

Or maybe Riff or Fleabag from this forum Pell would be a good deputy PM

Now on the rumor mill in the US is that Bush will create tax exempt savings accounts with no tax penalties for withdrawals. If this goes through not only will US savings rise [and the current deficit go down], but it will create another massive pool of liquid capital - that will spur further investment and capital spending and ergo economic growth.

Why is creating tax exempt savings accounts a GREAT idea ?

Anytime something is taxed, less of it is produced. Just as taxing labor income (as is done through the income tax) results in less labor being offered, taxing savings results in less saving and investment.

People who save must pay taxes on money in the year it is earned and then year after year on the returns generated by that money. A country that taxes savings will produce less savings and, no surprise, might find itself with a drooping savings rate. At some point, capital formation will suffer and growth will not be as robust as it might have been absent the tax on saving.

On the other hand, if a country removes disincentives to save and invest, people will save and invest more; capital formation will be strong and growth faster. Bush's plan importantly has no income caps the tax free savings accounts. Since the rich have more money to save from disposable income, allowing them to shoot for the rafters would turbocharge the impact.

Taxing savings also weakens the economy by creating distortions and inefficiencies. Under the current regime, people spend vast amounts of time scheming to convert unspent money into nontaxable income and putting billions of dollars into suboptimal tax shelters.

In Canadance - the gov't taxes RSP withdrawals before age 65 [at least 30% if not more], and there is no vehicle in Canada to accumulate capital without having it taxed except for your primary residence [this might mean instead of investing in capital investments and such you just pay off your mortgage sooner, but after that then what ?].

Since the Bush plan is so logical and enticing don't expect the Dumbocruds or the Cdns to support it.

[Hugo]

Heavy emphasis on private savings has been a key driver in the success of the Japanese economy. I think it wise to cast one's eyes around the world and learn from the successes and failures of other countries, however, Canada apparently doesn't care for this and seems to be modeling its economics on the Soviet model (an abject and total failure).

It all seems to stem from petty jealousy. Canadian systems are designed to punish the rich and successful with heavy taxation and the deletion of options to use wealth to your own advantage e.g. to buy better healthcare. What is so wrong with this? If the use of wealth to buy better things for oneself is so evil, then why aren't we banning luxury cars, big-screen TVs and large homes? Why is it better to spend money on these things than on one's own health and the health of one's family?

[SirRiff]

if the US is so damn fanstastic, why do they kill each other at rates much higher then any other nation, and why cant they get health care to thier citizens?

i would be more impressed if the following werent true;

the poor get screwed really bad in the US, which causes all sorts ofsocial problems are unnecessary human suffering

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml...17&section=news

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Saying 18,000 people die every year because they lack health insurance, federal advisers said on Wednesday the U.S. government must come up with universal health coverage by 2010.

"The Institute of Medicine, an independent, non-profit group which advises Congress and the federal government on health matters, said taxpayers are paying for 43 million uninsured Americans anyway -- and footing a much bigger bill than they would if those people had decent health care.

"The president and Congress should strive to achieve universal health coverage in the United States by 2010," the institute said in a statement.

"Uninsured Americans get about half the medical care of those with health insurance," it added. "As a result, they tend to be sicker and die sooner.""

private savings is nice, but the US gives up alot to achieve its miltary and wealth success. this concepts are meaningless if you are stuggling just to be safe and healthy. there is alot of misery in the US too which you dont see everyday on TV. just a matter of allocation of funds and how you distribute it.

i choose the canadian model, its done very well for canada. our quality of life is very high and that is what is important to most canadians

[Morgan]

What the Institute of Medicine does not say is that there is a single payer system in place in America already-the US government and middle upper income taxpayers.

Illegals and welfare recipients are getting good health care FREE through the US county hospitals as well as emergency departments of the finest hospitals in America. NO HOSPITAL CAN TURN AWAY ANYONE COMING TO THEIR EMERGENCY DEPARTMENTS. Some hospitals are going banqrupt in southern border states due to overuse by Hispanics. Vincente Fox encourages ambulence services to take Hispanics across the border to US hospitals.

Saying that people don't live as long when they use county hospitals is a canard. That segment of county hospital users are also more likely to lead high health risk life styles due to alcoholism, drug use, and membership in gangs. Also, a good percentage of healthy young Americans who are earning good salaries are choosing not to buy health insurance because they would prefer to sink their money in things like BMW's nice clothes vacations. They are playing the odds and pay out of pocket whenever they get sick.

If the US politicians [many of whom are ex-lawyers ]would enact tort reform, health insurance would not be as costly. As it stands, every physician has to order every medical test in the book to protect himself from frivolous litigation. Lawyers take cases on a contingency basis, so the litigant has nothing to lose out of their own pockets for frivolous lawsuits nor does he pay his own lawyer unless he wins money from the lawsuit. Losers do not pick up court costs in the USA as they do here in Canada.

Simple solution-tort reform, seal the borders, take away birthright citizenship which is a temptation for illegal immigration, force businesses to offer HMO type health insurance coverage for any guest workers they hire and the USA would be doing just fine.

Since when did health care become a right? I'm weary of all these new found "rights" that socialists manufacture out of thin air but do not implement in their own country. Does Vincente Fox think medical care is a right? No, but he thinks his people have every right to use US and Canadian hospitals...just not the hospital that he and his wife and the other 50 oligarchy families use in Mexico.

When the Third World kleptomaniacs start offering good health care in their own countries instead of passing on their people to the First World, that's the day that I'll buy into the health care is a right mindset.

Otherwise health care is a service that people need to pay for or the service is not worth a hill of beans -look at Canada's shameful equal but mediocre and rationed health care service. Universally in shambles that's what it is, and you are so proud? Is that what you define as being so superior to what exists in the USA? Get real.

[KrustyKidd]

if the US is so damn fanstastic, why do they kill each other at rates much higher then any other nation, and why cant they get health care to thier citizens?

Health: Top 100 Spending (public)

1. Germany 7.9% (1999)

4. France 7.3% (1999)

5. Norway 7.0 (1999)

6. Denmark 6.9% (1999)

9. Canada 6.6% (1999)

15. United Kingdom 5.8% (1999)

17. United States 5.7% (1999)

25. Portugal 5.1%

Not much difference between 6.6 and 5.7. Least not as much as some would have us believe.

Healtth: Top 100 Spending (private)

1. United States 7.1% (1999)

2. Greece 3.6%

3. Korea, South 3.0% (1999)

4. Mexico 2.8%

5. Netherlands 2.8% (1999)

6. Switzerland 2.8%

7. Canada 2.7% (1999)

8. Italy 2.6% (1999)

9. Australia 2.6%

10. Germany 2.6% (1999)

11. Portugal 2.5%

12. Belgium 2.5% (1999)

13. Austria 2.3% (1999)

14. Norway 2.2% (1999)

15. France 2.0% (1999)

16. New Zealand 1.8% (1999)

17. Finland 1.7% (1999)

18. Hungary 1.6%

19. Japan 1.6%

20. Ireland 1.6% (1999)

21. Spain 1.6%

22. Slovakia 1.5%

23. Denmark 1.5% (1999)

24. Poland 1.5% (1999)

25. Turkey 1.4%

See here where the public figures are enhanced by the private. Food for thought.

Crime: Total crimes (per capita)

1. Dominica 111.99 per 1000 people

3. Finland 102.3 per 1000 people

7. United Kingdom 86.5 per 1000 people

8. United States 84.39 per 1000 people

11. Canada 77.63 per 1000 people

12. Germany 75.25 per 1000 people

13. Norway 72.94 per 1000 people

14. France 63.11 per 1000 people

18. Italy 38.22 per 1000 people

Crime: Top 100 Murders (per capita)

Country Description Amount

1. Mexico 0.13 per 1000 people

2. Poland 0.06 per 1000 people

3. United States 0.05 per 1000 people

4. Finland 0.03 per 1000 people

5. Slovakia 0.03 per 1000 people

6. Portugal 0.02 per 1000 people

7. Hungary 0.02 per 1000 people

8. Korea, South 0.02 per 1000 people

9. Iceland 0.02 per 1000 people

10. France 0.02 per 1000 people

11. Czech Republic 0.02 per 1000 people

12. Australia 0.02 per 1000 people

13. Canada 0.02 per 1000 people

14. United Kingdom 0.01 per 1000 people

15. Italy 0.01 per 1000 people

16. Spain 0.01 per 1000 people

17. Germany 0.01 per 1000 people

Definitely right about the murder part though. I wonder if it has to do with cities as the US has a lot of big ones? If so then this would be a misleading stat as most people live outside of cities and would give a skewed rating.

[Craig Read]

Sure homicide rates are higher in the States vs. Canada. But petty crime rates are higher in Canada. Homicide rates in major US cities are declining - in Canada they are rising. Outside of homicides - which have many causes from urban congestion, race issues, gun ubiquity, to self defense, the US experiences less crime than Canada. [economist world in figures 2003].

Economically the US on a per capita, per income, and standard of living basis is 12 -15 years ahead of Canada. I posted on some other posts numerous studies to support this. CCLS - a Canadian think tank - states that Canada is at 1989 vs. the US. Ie. If we were the US we would be in 1989 not 2004.

The economic gap widened during the 1990s and the pace is quickening.

Normalise Canada's numbers for military spend and we run 4 % deficits not surpluses. This given an overtaxation of 30 % vs. US taxpayers.

So the question is- where the hell is our money going to and why ?

As KK posted Health spending is the same in both countries [public], the US has the world's best private care, technology and drug market - precisely because it has liberated its industry to respond to consumer demand.

What Cdns don't clue into is that the only reforms possible in health or in any sector must be consumer centric.

Think of eye care in the 70s - everyone screaming that you had to control and regulate it - too complex, poor could not access it and so on.

Now ubiquity, access, price declines and innovation make eye care a commodity that all can afford.

Canada needs more dynamism not less, unless of course you feel that Canadance is the model country of the future.

[Michael Hardner]

Again... back up your posts.

[SirRiff]

i think it was my comment below which lead to all this useless stats being posted. but nobody really focuses on teh implications.

if the US is so damn fanstastic, why do they kill each other at rates much higher then any other nation, and why cant they get health care to thier citizens?

the fact is that the US is more violent then any other 1st world nation. that is the important reality.

the fact is that even when the US spends more (total private and public) on health care, there are still tens of millions uninsured- even those who work full time, and there is no evidence that the insured are healthier then Canadians. Thus the system is defective. else the market system would produce the right amount of health care, adn by spending more on it, americans should be a bit healthier.

so in the ned of the day, the problems remain.

1) excessive amounts of violence

2) deficient amounts of health care

the manifestation on these problems is the only important thing. as a citizen who was victim of a crime, or who cant afford to get sick without ruining my life, which country pays what makes no difference.

a university of TO author put it best when he said "when given a choice between liberty and efficiency, Americans choose liberty every time"

i think its a perfect encapsulation of the differences between us and the US.

[udawg]

One of the many reasons I hope Canada never becomes like the United States is the health care system. Even now, we're getting a little too close for comfort. No longer does every citizen get equal care in Canada.

Tommy Douglas' vision was for every person to recieve quality healthcare, regardless of money. Several provinces are no longer following these ideals, and making people pay for certain services. This is a step backwards, and should be corrected before we DO end up like the US.

Say what you like about the amount of government money poured into healthcare, we still have the better system, and our citizens still recieve better care. Until somebody can prove to me that the American system saves more lives, helps more people, and is better for the low-income family, not just the rich, I will continue to believe in Medicare.

[udawg]

Economically the US on a per capita, per income, and standard of living basis is 12 -15 years ahead of Canada. I posted on some other posts numerous studies to support this. CCLS - a Canadian think tank - states that Canada is at 1989 vs. the US. Ie. If we were the US we would be in 1989 not 2004.

The economic gap widened during the 1990s and the pace is quickening.

Normalise Canada's numbers for military spend and we run 4 % deficits not surpluses. This given an overtaxation of 30 % vs. US taxpayers.

It's hard to compare ourselves against a country with nearly 10 times the population, who has a hundred-year head start on sovereignty, and has been more industrialized for our entire respective histories. It's simply not a fair comparison. If we've caught up to 12-15 years apart, "not bad" is all i have to say.

The climate gives the US a head start, as probably 60 percent of our nation, at least, spends 7 months of the year frozen. The US has been more heavily populated, allowing industrialization, diversification, and expansion, since the first settlers arrived.

Forging their own country 90 years earlier than we did gave the US that much more time to build their own economy, not reliant on Britain's. Canada, on the other hand, remained part of Britain's mercantilist economy, reaping none of the benefits of our work. It was only after Britain moved to free trade, with the Industrial Revolution, that Canada had to form her own trade partners and policies, which led to Confederation.

All these factors lead me to my point, which is that comparing the US economy and Canada's is completely biased. If we caught up 75 years out of 90, in only 140 years, that's not too bad. Give us another 140 years; we'll be 60 years ahead of the US.

[Elder]

udawg, the reasons why are quite irrelevant. It's like saying one sports team is better than another because this player, they've been together so long, and they have this coach. Does it really change the fact that one team is doing better. Now honestly, I'm not really one to say which country is better, due to the fact that I'm extremely biased. I am a true blue yank, and if you ask me I'll say the U.S. out of pure nationalism. Congratulations in your potential. In a century-and-a-half my great-great grandkids might be on this forum and they'll probably be just as nationalist without the wonderful statistics. Maybe they'll say something like "It's our great-great-grand parents fault for their over expansionism." I hope not, and it won't change a thing.

[SirRiff]

so the US is AHEAD of us by 10+ years yet americans kill each other more then any other nation? racial inequalities STILL linger? health care collapsing and perscription drugs still overprice?

man if that is what happens 10 years in the future i am happy where we are. we are socially 1 generation ahead of the US.

anyways, the US will just be little mexcio in 20 years.

sirriff

[KrustyKidd]

americans kill each other more then any other nation?

Aside from the usual and easily disproved misinformation you post here

Crime: Top 100 Murders (per capita)

1. Colombia 0.65 per 1000 people

2. South Africa 0.5 per 1000 people

3. Jamaica 0.33 per 1000 people

4. Venezuela 0.33 per 1000 people

5. Russia 0.2 per 1000 people

6. Mexico 0.13 per 1000 people

7. Lithuania 0.1 per 1000 people

8. Estonia 0.1 per 1000 people

9. Latvia 0.1 per 1000 people

10. Belarus 0.1 per 1000 people

11. Ukraine 0.09 per 1000 people

12. Papua New Guinea 0.09 per 1000 people

13. Kyrgyzstan 0.09 per 1000 people

14. Thailand 0.08 per 1000 people

15. Zimbabwe 0.08 per 1000 people

16. Zambia 0.08 per 1000 people

17. Moldova 0.08 per 1000 people

18. Seychelles 0.07 per 1000 people

19. Costa Rica 0.06 per 1000 people

20. Poland 0.06 per 1000 people

21. Georgia 0.05 per 1000 people

22. Uruguay 0.05 per 1000 people

23. United States 0.05 per 1000 people

GEE, YOUR CONTENTION ABOUT THE USA WOULDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH MINORITIES, CITIES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT WOULD IT RIFF?

The highest murder rate among cities is in Cairo. Latin American cities associated with crime and drugs (Mexico City, Rio de Janeiro, Sao Paulo and Bogota) have the next highest rates, followed by North American cities.

man if that is what happens 10 years in the future i am happy where we are. we are socially 1 generation ahead of the US.

You have never been to America have you? Spent time in a town (which comprise most of America vice the large cities) and seen the people, met them, talked with them, laughed with them. Seen how interested they were in Canada and the rest of the world, seen how much they value human life , joy, laughed at my daughter and loved her accent and marveled at how we lived in such cold. Nope, you see them as red necks. Same as I look at you as small minded I guess. Truthfully, they are enjoying life and being together, none of them have ambitions of owning the world in their image, they just like to be friends with good people. Really Riff, you should get out more. Oh,if you ever do decide to loosen up and meet those you hate, be prepared to become relaxed and unthreatened. Another more serious note: lose the arrogant, judgemental attitude, once outside the superior 'Liberal Bubble' and in the real world, it could get you tuned up PDQ when confronted by normal people.

[SirRiff]

KrustyKidd, its pretty stupid to assume that i havnt been to the US just because i point out they have high murder rates (to which i am comparing them to other 1st world nations) NOT the slums of mexico- i find it very odd that you would compare such obvious different situations. as if having a lower murder rate in chicago then the wost ghetto in africa is something to be proud about. when we discuss these national stats we compare accross economically similar nations, Canada, US, Britian, Japan, etc.)

its not like we live in iran or something, a canadian living in ontario is pretty likely to spend time and having family in the US as i do. i grew up travelling about the US, so i think it shows you are functioning out of reality to think that any canadian doesnt know what america is like. but no matter how many american cities i see, still doesnt change the behavior of america as a whole. which is the only thing anybody has discussed here. if you want to start a thread about whether individual american towns are full of normal people, go head, but we are talking nations here.

its always sad to see people find comfort in teh fact that everyone else who disagrees must not live in teh "Real world" like them, and must not have travelled the world.

its tells far more about how you view others then anything. just to clarify, its doubtfull you have any better experiences to judge the world then me, or anybody else. whoever told you that you do, was lying.

and just to point out, even a small town farmer in alberta can make intelligent judgements on what it right and wrong and his opinions. i have never been to afganistan, but its not hard to come to conclusions about the taliban.

sirriff

[KrustyKidd]

the fact is that the US is more violent then any other 1st world nation. that is the important reality.

I must appologise Riff. I took it to mean ALL countries. I am sorry. However, I did some further research and here is what I found:

Total crimes (per capita)

1. New Zealand 109.32 per 1000 people

2. Finland 102.3 per 1000 people

3. Denmark 93.92 per 1000 people

4. United Kingdom 86.5 per 1000 people

5. United States 84.39 per 1000 people

6. Netherlands 81.26 per 1000 people

7. Canada 77.63 per 1000 people

8. Germany 75.25 per 1000 people

9. Norway 72.94 per 1000 people

10. France 63.11 per 1000 people

Wow. .04% more crimes in the States. It’s a madhouse!

Rapes (per capita)

1. Australia 0.8 per 1000 people

2. Canada 0.75 per 1000 people

3. United States 0.32 per 1000 people

4. Iceland 0.26 per 1000 people

5. New Zealand 0.22 per 1000 people

6. United Kingdom 0.14 per 1000 people

7. France 0.14 per 1000 people

Hmmm. If you are a girl, better carry mace in Canada. Only half a can in the States.

Assaults (per capita)

1. United States 7.98 per 1000 people

2. New Zealand 7.72 per 1000 people

3. United Kingdom 7.54 per 1000 people

4. Canada 7.32 per 1000 people

Wow. The US is full of barbarians. Almost .06% more than Canada.

Burglaries (per capita)

1. Australia 22.35 per 1000 people

2. Denmark 18.55 per 1000 people

3. Finland 16.9 per 1000 people

4. New Zealand 16.81 per 1000 people

5. United Kingdom 13.99 per 1000 people

6. Poland 9.44 per 1000 people

7. Canada 9.2 per 1000 people

8. Iceland 8.62 per 1000 people

9. Switzerland 8.27 per 1000 people

10. United States 7.48 per 1000 people

11. Czech Republic 7.24 per 1000 people

12. Hungary 7.11 per 1000 people

13. France 6.21 per 1000 people

14. Ireland 5.93 per 1000 people

Still feel safer in Canada? Your purse isn’t. Either is your wallet. Might have something to do with criminals getting their privates shot off when caught in the process of a crime.

Car thefts (per capita)

1. Australia 7.12 per 1000 people

2. Denmark 6 per 1000 people

3. United Kingdom 5.67 per 1000 people

4. New Zealand 5.63 per 1000 people

5. Norway 5.16 per 1000 people

6. France 5.05 per 1000 people

7. Canada 5.02 per 1000 people

8. Italy 4.23 per 1000 people

9. United States 4.09 per 1000 people

And your car would be better off parked on Broadway as well.

KrustyKidd, its pretty stupid to assume that i havnt been to the US just because i point out they have high murder rates (to which i am comparing them to other 1st world nations)

Let's see. Hmmm. Yes, you are right, they do.

Murders (per capita)

1. Mexico 0.13 per 1000 people

2. Poland 0.06 per 1000 people

3. United States 0.05 per 1000 people

4. Finland 0.03 per 1000 people

5. Slovakia 0.03 per 1000 people

6. Portugal 0.02 per 1000 people

7. Hungary 0.02 per 1000 people

8. Korea, South 0.02 per 1000 people

9. Iceland 0.02 per 1000 people

10. France 0.02 per 1000 people

I wonder if this includes burglers getting shot in the act? I would also hazard a guess that most takes place in the cities of over two million.

“Metro areas with populations between 2.0 million and 5.0 million contained 14.4 percent of the population and grew the fastest (19.8 percent).”

US POPULATION FIGURES

That’s roughly fifty million. This leaves eighty percent of America living in places that you did not go.

but no matter how many american cities i see, still doesnt change the behavior of america as a whole.

As I was saying. Get out a bit. Away from the cities, where the other eighty percent of Americans live. The less violent two hundred million of them..

its always sad to see people find comfort in teh fact that everyone else who disagrees must not live in teh "Real world" like them, and must not have travelled the world.

its tells far more about how you view others then anything. just to clarify, its doubtfull you have any better experiences to judge the world then me, or anybody else. whoever told you that you do, was lying.

I think I did and still do a fair bit of getting out Riff. I spend eighty percent of my time in the United States. Not in the cities but in towns and the highways. Obviously having a purpose other than being a tourist or a visitor people naturally interact with me more normally than they would a tourist as they know that my intent is business and nothing suspect.

Aside from this I spent four years in Germany, two in Belgium and another two in the Middle East. During those periods I traveled a lot as well.

Anyhow, to sum up I would like to say that yes, you were right. The US has more violent crime than most other first world nations. However, I would point out that there is a reason for that and that would be the prevelence of large metropolitan cities. More so than Canada for example.

As well, I would also point out that in the smaler places (of which I frequently travel) people are at least as friendly as they are anywhere in Canada. In most communities they are at least on par and usually more progressive than those who you say are socially one generation behind us.

To make such an arrogant comment makes me think of another bogus comment recently made about Americans that couldn't be backed up.

[SirRiff]

As well, I would also point out that in the smaler places (of which I frequently travel) people are at least as friendly as they are anywhere in Canada. In most communities they are at least on par and usually more progressive than those who you say are socially one generation behind us.

huh??

so you are saying rural america is more progressive then urban america? what exactly is your definition of progressive????

i think its fairly accepted that urban centers with thier large populations and diverse makeups are more socially accepting then the rural, mostly white, less urban settings. but hell, thats just a wacky idea people have.

and in response to all those numbers you put up about violence. they are meaningless without context.

look at US violence per capital as a function of national wealth. THAT is the important aspect. because poverty increases violence. thus its logical to expect the US, with its wealth far beyond any nation, to be by far a better society. but it isnt. its actually a primative society with alot of problems. THAt is the sad thing, not that they are just more violent, but considering the wealth and land and isolation, that they are still less advanced then other societies.

sirriff

[KrustyKidd]

so you are saying rural america is more progressive then urban america? what exactly is your definition of progressive

Progressive is whatever you want it to be. You think health care is God. I think that helping each other is. In rural areas they do that more. In cities they have to have laid down rules because people don't bond the way they do in smaller communities. Hence the need for for more laid down rules on social, health and law.

i think its fairly accepted that urban centers with thier large populations and diverse makeups are more socially accepting then the rural, mostly white, less urban settings. but hell, thats just a wacky idea people have.

LOL I guess I hit the nail on the head when I confirmed you ony go to cities. You are so cute Riff. Only in your mind does demographics fall into place so easily. I have to note this for the future:

Note to KK

In Riffs world, minorities live in cities and whites live in non cities.

Got it.

.

Therefore, scince more crime per capita occurs in the cities Riff follows the logic that minorities commit crime more than whites. .  We already know he hates Americans because he feels they are violent so it is not much of a stretch to think he hates those who commit the most cirme the most - minority city dwellers.  Therefore Riff is a racial profiler and a bigot

Never been to Georgia, Mississippi, Illiois, Colorado, shoot, pretty much anywhere but the Northern states have you?

and in response to all those numbers you put up about violence. they are meaningless without context.

LINK FOR STATS RIFF

There are lots of stats there. Lots that even support your case. Go for it. Remember, when you quote them note the small differences even when there is a big difference. Ie; Canada might be #1 but only by .0000012% over #7. Not really a hard line.

ook at US violence per capital as a function of national wealth. THAT is the important aspect.

Look at the stats Riff. A difference of .00whatever% Thats picking fly shit from pepper. Sure more murders and guns, I'll give you that but the rest is less or pretty much on par. A far cry from the bedlam you or your sidekick Tontonius paint. I explained it by the prevalence of the Mega Cities. You counter explained it with 'progressive' crap about redneck whites in trailer parks with shotguns in the country and sophisticated blacks with bibles and Korans in the city. Get an argument for crying out loud.

thus its logical to expect the US, with its wealth far beyond any nation, to be by far a better society..

So where does all the wealth go Riff? You do the facts for a change and I'll attack you. I'll start with a broad brush the way you always do then you scramble to use the afore mentioned site or whatever to disprove;

A bit of foreign aid, less per capita than some other nations but it's substansially there. Then it's followed by forgiven mega loans, more than any other country. Then there is the 'evil' military that stopped you and your socialist buddies from becomming rubel less dirt laborers on a windswept nameless Potato Commune in Northern Saskatchewan, kept the price of oil down so you don't have to grease your bycycle chain with bacon fat as well as maintain stability througout the world so investments that the west depends on can maintain a sembalence of order. Their investments of government money into space for no other reason than to look to the future has brought you so many benifits it is unreal. Without their investing money they will most likely never get back, most of the third world would would starve.

but it isnt. its actually a primative society with alot of problems

We have two cities that can really compare with their fifty or so. Not to mention the influx of third world people steaming across the border every day. You have an equal guage in Canada for that? I do. Try placing everybody iCanada in four cities like Toronto in a line next to four million Indians living on a non subsidized reserve with a porous border and see how our crime rate goes up. Try it Riff. Set back for a minute and think about it. Four million Indians crossing into four large cities after hiking across a hundred miles of country roads and whatever. Think the crime rate might go up a bit?

Watch out, if it goes up even one stinking percent your argument falls apart. Face it, they really have a lot on the go with all the stuff they have working against them.

THAt is the sad thing, not that they are just more violent, but considering the wealth and land and isolation, that they are still less advanced then other societies.

So are they more or less violent? Get back to me when you figure it out, I thought you were saying they were more and now I'm thinking I'm arguing against Craig or something.

OK, I get it, they are less evolved than we are. Must be the health care, you always go on about that. I don't know much about health care as I work and have about four plans that I pay into that take care of it. Key word is work. If this is the case then you are saying that health care defines a nation? Then why do we have Indians that are not happy? Islamist that are crying rasism? Why don't we have all sorts of crap going on in space? Why are our guys trying to keep the flag in Afganistan but can't leave the citiy of Kabul? Why is it when asked why they are proud of Canada people tell you it's because of something done fifty years ago or because we did nothing this decade?

Dang Riff, I'm openminded and would love to agree with you. Just give me some reality that I can work with.

[SirRiff]

THAt is the sad thing, not that they are just more violent, but considering the wealth and land and isolation, that they are still less advanced then other societies.

So are they more or less violent? Get back to me when you figure it out, I thought you were saying they were more and now I'm thinking I'm arguing against Craig or something.

read that again slowly....

[KrustyKidd]

You're right Riff, it reads bad. Thanks for pointing it out. It was connected to the city/rural thing you were on about.

Riff

i think its fairly accepted that urban centers with thier large populations and diverse makeups are more socially accepting then the rural, mostly white, less urban settings. but hell, thats just a wacky idea people have.

Most crime happens per capita in the urban centers. The ones that are "more social accepting" than the primitive urban settings.

THAt is the sad thing, not that they are just more violent, but considering the wealth and land and isolation, that they are still less advanced then other societies.

So the twenty percent of the people that live in cities make up the reason why America is primitive? They are after all the ones commiting most of the crime. Yes, the minorities are more violent, yes the white rural areas are less. You are going to blame this on the minorities in the States? Therefore the real Americans that make up 80% are the progressive ones.

To take this argument a bit further, let's eliminate the cities of both ours and their country altogether. Now it would seem that they are more peaceful than us. I have no stats but this comparison would be interesting would it not?

[Black Dog]

It's stuff like this that makes Canada better than the U.S.A.

The Oklahoma House passed a bill Monday that would require public school textbooks that discuss evolution to include a disclaimer stating that it is a controversial theory and not fact.

Rep. Bill Graves successfully included the language in House Bill 2194, a measure that originally changed the format for Braille versions of instructional materials.

“I think so many of the textbooks make it appear that evolution is a scientific fact and it’s not,” said Graves, R-Oklahoma City. “Even the U.S. Supreme Court says it’s a theory, so I was just trying to make that clear.

“I think it’s very important for children to know,” Graves said. “If they just believe that they came from some slime in a swamp that’s a whole lot different from being created in the image of God.”

Yikes.

[KrustyKidd]

It all equalizes itself though. On the other end of the States they sucessfully got rid of the Ten Commandments and other schools are making reference to God a no no. This guy is just a dinosaur that doesn't know the Leftist Meteorite has struck.

BTW, I think it backward as well but what would you say if you were in charge, I was he, and said that in order to not have that placed in the textbooks, that I wished to enable children to have a half hour religious period, religion of their choice (or a study period for those so disinclined?)

I mean, it is contreversial to a religious person, however, religion is contreversial to an athiest. Why not have disclaimers in the Bible?

[Black Dog]

BTW, I think it backward as well but what would you say if you were in charge, I was he, and said that in order to not have that placed in the textbooks, that I wished to enable children to have a half hour religious period, religion of their choice (or a study period for those so disinclined?)

I mean, it is contreversial to a religious person, however, religion is contreversial to an athiest. Why not have disclaimers in the Bible?

Well, I see religion is a personal matter and not one for a public school system. yeah, I see nothing wrong with offering religion courses that would cover a range of different theologies (who knows, it could actually promote a little understanding), but relgion is best left to the individual and the church.

[d4dev]

Canada free rides off the US military, US technology and health sectors and its drug industry

What exactly do you mean by 'free rides?' Could you be more specific?

The US has the 2nd highest living standards in the world - Canada falling to about 15th

Living standards cannot be an accurate measure of a country's overall prosperity. The US has high living standards because it has enormously rich business tycoons like Bill Gates and Hollywod filmstars, whose worth, if added up will probably be equal to the GDP of all the African nations put together. Just the other day I read somewhere that the worth of corporations like Microsoft and Sony is more than the entire GDP of some countries.

However, that makes only the top layer of society in the US immensely rich, whereas the bottomost layer lives in abject poverty. Thus, when you take the average standard of living, it turns out to be comparitively high.

In the case of Canada, the majority of the people have the same, fairly comfortable standard of living. There are neither super rich people nor extreme poverty as in some parts of the US.

Canada, therefore trys much more to reduce the rich-poor gap as much as possible, unlike the US, which seeks to widen it.

Canada has the 2nd lowest military spend in NATO and if you normalise military spend Canada would be running 3.5 % deficits.

Obviously. What do you expect? Canada spends more on healthcare and welfare programmes, it doesn't just go around the world like the US, fighting meaningless wars which have no connection to the american people whatsoever.

Cdn tax rates are 30 % above US rates.

Yup. How else do you finance welfare and healthcare and other pro-people programmes? We certainly don't want to 'emulate' the US in this regard, do we?

Cdn wage rates are in general for most professions quite a bit lower than US rates [see brain drain].

Canada has a smaller economy, what do you expect? That's an absolute non-issue. Which country in the world has wages as high as those in the US?

Cdn social liberalism is creating a European styled culture of egotistical self actualisers devoid of responsibility, morality and full of pious post modern nonsense centred on the belief that 'nothing matters.

That's just an illogical opinion from a conceited american. what kind of reply do you expect?