Muslim father chokes daughter to near death

[Rue]

As this post indicates, you don't have to be Muslim to feel you can treat women as lesser beings.

Its sad but Keng's sexually abusive comments that have come out during this homicide topic should not come as a suprise to anyone. I think it crucial people understand the kind of man who talks in such terms is also a man who will talk about morality and virtue. The two go hand in hand and that is the very point of this post and a tragic way to show the exact point-that people who harbour abusive thoughts and feelings often turn to fundamentalism as a pretext for their behaviour.

Edited December 17, 2007 by Rue

[Rue]

I would suggest that you read any of her posts, and if you don't find them to be ignorant and/or offensive, then I could tell you a thing or two about your level of intellectual development. I don't even know who you are, so you're mistaken if I have any concern about not reading my posts in the future.

Keng its over. All this does is reinforce you are an abusive person. You just dig the hole deeper and that personna you tried to play slips further away.

[JerrySeinfeld]

I think what alot of the lefty Islamania apologists seem to be neglecting is why this guy killed his daughter.

He killed her because of his Muslim beliefs.

No amount of red herring will distract us all from that FACT.

You can cite examples of violent fathers throughout history. The you can speculate on their religion.

What you can't do is erase the simple fact: the man killed his father because of his Muslim beliefs.

That is what is at issue here - the rest is just bullshit (or DOG shit - depending upon who's posting)

Edited December 17, 2007 by JerrySeinfeld

[JerrySeinfeld]

As this post indicates, you don't have to be Muslim to feel you can treat women as lesser beings.

No - but it helps if you want left wing coffee-house academics to deflect and minimize your actions on discussion forums.

[M.Dancer]

I think what alot of the lefty Islamania apologists seem to be neglecting is why this guy killed his daughter.

He killed her because of his Muslim beliefs.

No amount of red herring will distract us all from that FACT.

That isn't a fact. it isn't even close to a fact, and that is a FACT.....at this point it is merely an assumption without a shred of proof. It was an assumption made by the teenage friends of the girl that got pounced upon by the media. And no amount of capitalizing it will change that.

[Black Dog]

jerry, what's up for dispute is whether this is representative of all Muslims or immigrants. That's the real crux of the matter.

"Islamania apologists" is gold. And your crush on me, while flattering, is also creepy.

[kengs333]

As this post indicates, you don't have to be Muslim to feel you can treat women as lesser beings.

First, I don't think you understand the context in which the post was written; you don't know the history behind it, so you have no right commenting in this fashion.

[M.Dancer]

Not only do we all have a right to comment on it, its context is self evident.

[kengs333]

Keng its over. All this does is reinforce you are an abusive person. You just dig the hole deeper and that personna you tried to play slips further away.

The only abusive person here is you; you've written reams of hostile, malicious bile, and for some reason you're still allowed to pollute this forum with your demented rants. Anyone who has to post FIVE or SIX posts in a row in response to someone they don't agree with is acting in a manner that is beyond rational.

[eXploiTeD]

Typical.

Religion is one of the most dangerous delusions on the planet. The more religious a society, the worse off they are. That has held true for two thousand years.

[kengs333]

Typical.

Religion is one of the most dangerous delusions on the planet. The more religious a society, the worse off they are. That has held true for two thousand years.

Yeah, I guess that's why crime rates among devout Christians are so low. Exactly how many of those gang killings in Toronto the last decade or so were committed by Christians? I'll venture that the answer is none.

[kengs333]

Not only do we all have a right to comment on it, its context is self evident.

That's sad that when a person makes it clear that they have no respect for their own body and self, or for others they ensnare in their sinful game of self-gratification, there's absolutely no cause for concern from the likes of moral relativists such as yourself.

[Guest American Woman]

...what's up for dispute is whether this is representative of all Muslims or immigrants. That's the real crux of the matter.

Obviously it's not representative of all Muslims or immigrants, but it is representative of some. Seems to me that's the real crux of the matter.

[eXploiTeD]

Yeah, I guess that's why crime rates among devout Christians are so low. Exactly how many of those gang killings in Toronto the last decade or so were committed by Christians? I'll venture that the answer is none.

Devout Christians commit other crimes because they live in different social situations. And since Christians and Christian morality is the majority around here, their crimes are usually shielded by the law.

For instance, I believe it is a crime to arrest somebody for the possession of illegal drugs. I think it constitutes false imprisonment, kidnapping and usually assault. Devout Christians tend to support these things because they would rather see people's civil liberties walked all over then see them have a choice about how to live.

They might also molest children.

Or indirectly support the spread of AIDs because they can't stand people talking about sex in school, even though sex is one of the most important processes of humanity and doing it responsibly requires education and discussion, not ignorance and fear.

Religion is willful ignorance.

[ScottSA]

Devout Christians commit other crimes because they live in different social situations. And since Christians and Christian morality is the majority around here, their crimes are usually shielded by the law.

For instance, I believe it is a crime to arrest somebody for the possession of illegal drugs. I think it constitutes false imprisonment, kidnapping and usually assault. Devout Christians tend to support these things because they would rather see people's civil liberties walked all over then see them have a choice about how to live.

They might also molest children.

Or indirectly support the spread of AIDs because they can't stand people talking about sex in school, even though sex is one of the most important processes of humanity and doing it responsibly requires education and discussion, not ignorance and fear.

Religion is willful ignorance.

Interesting way of arguing that it's actually bad that Christians commit fewer crimes. Were you bullied a lot in school, Jenny?

[Drea]

Obviously it's not representative of all Muslims or immigrants, but it is representative of some. Seems to me that's the real crux of the matter.

And when a *insert race or creed, or whatever* man kills his wife he is not representative of all "his kind" of men.

But everyone sure has had a fun time blaming this fellow's Muslimness! Instead of looking at it for what it actually was -- a murder. Not a "muslim" honour killing, just a old fashioned murder.

That probably makes a number of you relieved. "whew! it's just a murderer".

Edited December 18, 2007 by Drea

[kengs333]

Devout Christians commit other crimes because they live in different social situations. And since Christians and Christian morality is the majority around here, their crimes are usually shielded by the law.

Your whole post was rather silly, so instead of wasting my time on refuting it all, I'll just stick to this first point.

What we consider law has evolved over a long time and dates back to the pre-Christian era in Europe; murder, rape, theft, etc. were always considered bad. In fact, the punishment for crimes used to be quite draconian or, at times, quite inappropriate, such as small fines. Over time, law in Europe--or in our case, Britain--evolved considerably, but in the end much of how we think about crime can in fact be traced to the old Germanic peoples that spread across Europe in the early centuries of the first millenia AD.

[eXploiTeD]

Interesting way of arguing that it's actually bad that Christians commit fewer crimes. Were you bullied a lot in school, Jenny?

I am not Jenny.

Christians don't commit fewer crimes. They just elect people to commit them for them. That is the power of the majority (just look at the Middle East to see a Muslim equivalent).

I do want to stay away from focusing on any religion in particular, however. All monotheistic religions are irrational/delusional, and encourage mindsets that are hateful towards humanity and justice in general.

[eXploiTeD]

Your whole post was rather silly, so instead of wasting my time on refuting it all, I'll just stick to this first point.

What we consider law has evolved over a long time and dates back to the pre-Christian era in Europe; murder, rape, theft, etc. were always considered bad. In fact, the punishment for crimes used to be quite draconian or, at times, quite inappropriate, such as small fines. Over time, law in Europe--or in our case, Britain--evolved considerably, but in the end much of how we think about crime can in fact be traced to the old Germanic peoples that spread across Europe in the early centuries of the first millenia AD.

Not only did you fail to refute any of my points, the only thing you did say is irrelevant to anything we are talking about. Although I appreciate a history lesson as much as anyone... sorry... there isn't anything to debate there.

[kengs333]

I do want to stay away from focusing on any religion in particular, however. All monotheistic religions are irrational/delusional, and encourage mindsets that are hateful towards humanity and justice in general.

Oh, right, which is why the central American civilizations killed thousands at a time in "human sacrifices" or the Godless communists in Russia murdered 30 million in the Gulags...

Yeah, you can deny all you want, but your posts have jenny written all over them. If, as a matter of fact, you are not her, the fact that you have such a similar posting style should in no way be taken as a compliment.

[cybercoma]

Yeah, I guess that's why crime rates among devout Christians are so low. Exactly how many of those gang killings in Toronto the last decade or so were committed by Christians? I'll venture that the answer is none.

This study would suggest that you're being dishonest with your reply.

Although making no particular statement about devout Christians themselves, the study did have this to say:

“In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy and abortion in the prosperous democracies."

This seems to contradict what you're saying.

[Pliny]

This study would suggest that you're being dishonest with your reply.

Although making no particular statement about devout Christians themselves, the study did have this to say:

This seems to contradict what you're saying.

Did he compare the statistics with Iran? It is a theocracy. I would think they would prove very significant. What are the rates of STDs, etc. there? It would prove a better comparison than America or Britain. The public schools in America are secular today. I would say that has a big influence upon behavior, bigger than stupid brainwashed parents who know nothing of the behavioral sciences. The separation of church and state in America was a wise thing. A state and a church together are pure hell for it's citizens, that is, unless they all agree to be oppressed and are into self-flagellation, penitence, atonement, self-abasement and such - officials in such an atmosphere are only too happy to be obliging and even help by contributing to such behavior.

I think the author of that study has something on his mind. Probably trying to not make himself look guilty. A very pure fellow, indeed, hardly human at all - a Saint, really!

[ScottSA]

This study would suggest that you're being dishonest with your reply.

Although making no particular statement about devout Christians themselves, the study did have this to say:

This seems to contradict what you're saying.

This has got to be the silliest "study" I've seen in a while, and I actually used to review feminist studies, so it's got some stiff competition in the silly department. One could as easily draw the same conclusion based on consumption of fresh fruit, or meat, given that the US also eats more of that; or on energy consumption; or miles travelled per capita; or any of a plethora of things. The "author" is just doing the usual European America-bashing and stupidly trying to draw a correlation between religion and crime, by virtue of the fact that the US has more of it. This year, anyway; I daresay if the 1930s, 40s, 5os, 60s, and 70s were included in the "study," we'd find a few more crimes in the USSR, Germany, China, and Cambodia...and only one of those can be gotten rid of by means of his other careful parsing (developed world).

[kengs333]

This study would suggest that you're being dishonest with your reply.

Although making no particular statement about devout Christians themselves, the study did have this to say:

This seems to contradict what you're saying.

Hardly. While wasting my time reading that piece of hack "journalism" is became evident that, according to the article, at least, this study simply correlates the high rates of dysfunctionality in American society with the perception among many Americans that their country is a beacon of Christianity in the world. It doesn't show that the people who actually consider themselves Christian are responsible for this. Something like that could never be written about Judaism or Islam, it would obviously be considered hate literature. Shameful.

[Guest American Woman]

This study would suggest that you're being dishonest with your reply.

Your link doesn't cite a study; it cite's a commentary on a study. I see no data at all in that commentary, nor do I see anything other than opinions quoted from the study along with the opinions of the author of the editorial. Do you have a link to the acutal study? That I'd love to see.

Sounds as if someone took statistics about crime, std's, etc. and concluded that belief in God is somehow connected because our nation has the highest percentage of believers. Sort of like 'the U.S. has the highest murder rate, etc., of any prosperous democracy and it has the highest percentage of believers, so believing must be a bad thing.' Another just as ridiculous 'conclusion' to be made from such a study would be 'the U.S. has the highest rate of murder, etc., and also has the highest Mexican population of any prosperous democracy,' therefore having a high population of Mexicans must be a bad thing.

I see nothing in the commentary or quotes from the study that in any way, shape, or form prove a connection between believing in God and our crime rate, abortion rate, std's, etc. But applying that line of thought, perhaps those lobbying for tougher gun control laws should be informed that it's not gun possession that's a problem, but belief in God. Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?

Btw, here's another commentary on "many studies" that say America is the most charitable nation in the world. "These studies show that Americans give far more towards helping out their fellow man, in times of trouble, than any other private citizenry in the world."

So according to those studies, using the same line of thought, belief in God would be a good thing.

Edited December 18, 2007 by American Woman