Gary McHale Assaults a Six Nations Woman

[AngusThermopyle]

Education is key to this situation. Personal responsability is also a major factor. When you have many people who are uneducated or poorly educated it spells trouble, couple that with a refusal to be responsible for ones actions and you have the breeding ground that has in part spawned the situation Natives now face. these are certainly not the only reasons but they do play a major role. The Ontario government has offered 6 nations 28 million dollars in settlement. This money could be a major boon to them if they truly do want to change things, I dont think they'll accept that though. After all 28 million is a far cry from "everything" which is what they really want.

Do you think it's her? Making another assault on this sites posters as she tries to ram her agenda down everyones throats.

Edited December 16, 2007 by AngusThermopyle

[charter.rights]

Education is key to this situation. Personal responsability is also a major factor. When you have many people who are uneducated or poorly educated it spells trouble, couple that with a refusal to be responsible for ones actions and you have the breeding ground that has in part spawned the situation Natives now face. these are certainly not the only reasons but they do play a major role. The Ontario government has offered 6 nations 28 million dollars in settlement. This money could be a major boon to them if they truly do want to change things, I dont think they'll accept that though. After all 28 million is a far cry from "everything" which is what they really want.

Do you think it's her? Making another assault on this sites posters as she tries to ram her agenda down everyones throats.

Education is important but poverty breeds far more problems than a lack of education. Poor people either give up entirely, or they go on a rampage. First Nations in general are third world status in my perspective and that should be one of the focuses. Just like any town needs economic development, I think First Nations need to have their own sources of EC.

I don't think the 28 mil is for anything more than one claim. Does anyone know the details of the offer?

(I'm not sure what you are saying in the last part. You kinda lost me. Can you explain it a bit more please? McHale is a guy, not a woman, I think.)

[ScottSA]

Education is important but poverty breeds far more problems than a lack of education. Poor people either give up entirely, or they go on a rampage. First Nations in general are third world status in my perspective and that should be one of the focuses. Just like any town needs economic development, I think First Nations need to have their own sources of EC.

I have an idea! Naw, that would involve going to work, and work would take away from time spent on the barracades demanding more welfare. Silly me.

[charter.rights]

I have an idea! Naw, that would involve going to work, and work would take away from time spent on the barracades demanding more welfare. Silly me.

What "work" are you talking about? Unemployment isn't that high in Canada and on some First Nation reserves the unemployment rate is as high as 80%. Are you suggesting that First Nations leave their reserves and flood the cities like refugees? That would only make things worse in our cities, let alone more homeless people sleeping on the streets...and ...quite possibly it would increase the need for social assistance.

[eXploiTeD]

And that way we wouldn't have to listen to the whining. Trouble is, it would be about ten minutes before they starved to death, or froze to death, or started showing up at our hospitals in poor shape, and their leadership, like recovering amnesiacs, started remembering other treaties carried down by "oral tradition"...

Not our problem.

I would suspect that a settlement of this type would entail revoking all previous treaties.

[kengs333]

What "work" are you talking about? Unemployment isn't that high in Canada and on some First Nation reserves the unemployment rate is as high as 80%. Are you suggesting that First Nations leave their reserves and flood the cities like refugees? That would only make things worse in our cities, let alone more homeless people sleeping on the streets...and ...quite possibly it would increase the need for social assistance.

I think the way it works is that a person is supposed to get an education and then go where that education can best be utilized, earn money and send it back to family if need be. There's no reason why leaving the reserve should result in a loss of connect with where someone comes from, a loss of culture.

[eXploiTeD]

No they don't, actually. No one has the right to flagrantly break the law, interfere with the lives of other Canadians in order to push a political agenda.

A simple logical fallacy: I never suggested that Natives have the "right" to break the law. But they do - like all human beings - enjoy the right to self-determination.

Since no court in the world recognizes contracts formed under duress or coercion, it follows that any or all treaties made between the Natives and the Government of Canada are unenforceable by law. They may be followed from time to time, when it suits the political agenda of the rightful inhabitants of this country, but there is no legal basis for expecting Natives to obey the rules laid down by a government never consented too. This is especially true given the Government of Canada's historical disregard for it's treaty obligations.

The problems ailing Natives will continue until they can integrate into communities they truly feel apart of. Simple as that. Sociologists have learned that deviant behavior is directly linked with the level of identification with the dominant culture. No amount of "tough love" and patchwork fixes are going to get to the root of our problems with one another... we need to take a completely different approach, one based on allowing Natives the opportunity to define, for the first time, their place in society - instead of society defining it for them.

That's not how it works in Canada.

And in Canada, things don't work. I think this indicates a change in direction is needed.

Moreover, characterizing the treatment of Indians now as "abysmal" is ridiculous considering how much of a sincere effort there has been on the part of society and government to rectify past problems, and considering how much money has been dumped into programs for Indian culture, rehabilitation, economic development.

There is no doubting the sincerity of those working to resolve these issues. What I doubt is the soundness of their policies.

You said it yourself: look at how much effort has been put into trying to rectify these problems. Look at how much money. That alone justifies the decision to abandon our current methods of handling this issue. It's a simple cost-benefit analysis - can you really argue that the effort we've put into it has produced a result you can agree with? Because that's clearly not the case...

Much of the problem does rest on the individual bands and how they are mismanaged, or the manner in which backward and defeatest attitudes imposed on youth by their elders.

My friend, you are hacking at branches. Instead of combating these attitudes, perhaps we need to ask ourselves why?

There's only one solution to many of the problems that Indians face: education.

Why do they need education? Are you suggesting that they are stupid? That they, unlike us, are unable to comprehend what's right for them? That because they don't walk lockstep with your opinion on what's best for them... that they are perhaps less then you?

It's this sort of attitude that is most damaging to Native-Canadian relations.

And when I read Indians complaining about education being a "white man's" tool for oppression and genocide, it's difficult to feel much sympathy.

Erm, up until about forty years ago, that was exactly what Native (re)education was. We have to give them a reason to trust us, not just assume that they will feel the same as we do.

People who want to live in ignorance only have themselves to blame, and Canada should have to pay for it when a bunch of under-educated people feel that they need to be compensated for being disenfranchised.

Another logical fallacy. You are painting all Natives with one brush, i.e. mass generalization. Further, you are misrepresenting the issue... Natives haven't been disenfranchised, they've been raped and then made to negotiate for the things needed to defend themselves.

[ScottSA]

A simple logical fallacy: I never suggested that Natives have the "right" to break the law. But they do - like all human beings - enjoy the right to self-determination.

Speaking of logical fallacies...naw, never mind...you've already been banned a bunch of times for this same kind of trolling.

[eXploiTeD]

Speaking of logical fallacies...naw, never mind...you've already been banned a bunch of times for this same kind of trolling.

Maybe you are confusing me with someone else? I've never been banned from this forum. And I don't particularly think speaking my opinion is "trolling." Maybe if I was calling you names or something?

[kengs333]

Maybe you are confusing me with someone else? I've never been banned from this forum. And I don't particularly think speaking my opinion is "trolling." Maybe if I was calling you names or something?

Nice try. But here of course you do get the benefit of the doubt and your behaviour is tolerated to a certain extent with hope that eventually you'll settle down and start being a more productive poster. Something that your "more tolerant" friends at rabble would never consider.

[charter.rights]

Nice try. But here of course you do get the benefit of the doubt and your behaviour is tolerated to a certain extent with hope that eventually you'll settle down and start being a more productive poster. Something that your "more tolerant" friends at rabble would never consider.

So now that you have failed to derail this discussion let's get back to the questions you seem to be avoiding:

From my previous post....

What laws were broken? I did an inet search and from what I can tell any laws there were broken there were charges laid and sent to court. Some of them have been found not guilty and the rest received reasonable sentences. So really, what laws are you talking about that have been flagrantly broken?

Yet...that McHale fella is interfering with the lives of other Canadians, in and around Caledonia in order to push his personal political agenda, despite being told by many Caledonians publicly that he is not wanted there. As well, now McHale has been banned from Caledonia because the OPP made a deal with him which I understand he now wants to renege on. So I wonder what goes through a guy's mind that says he wants the police to enforce the law, yet who quickly refuses to abide by the law. I also understand that there may be an assault charge coming and it seems McHale is a bit of a hypocrite in saying he didn't assault the woman while there is credible video evidence that proves he did. Do you suppose McHale doctored that video on his own website to edit out the actual assault? And don't you think it a bit ironic that the guy lied in the public forum while trying to show the OPP are being truthful?

Lots of questions come out of this affair in my perspective. McHale's lack of credibility is no longer unanswered.

[ScottSA]

I think most reasonable people would argue that Indians are the ones "interfering with the lives of other Canadians." I thought you were banned, Jenny.

[eXploiTeD]

Nice try. But here of course you do get the benefit of the doubt and your behaviour is tolerated to a certain extent with hope that eventually you'll settle down and start being a more productive poster. Something that your "more tolerant" friends at rabble would never consider.

Who the hell are you talking about?

I haven't posted here in months. And what the fuck is rabble?

Edited December 17, 2007 by eXploiTeD

[kengs333]

Who the hell are you talking about?

I haven't posted here in months. And what the fuck is rabble?

You're not fooling anyone.

[M.Dancer]

You're not fooling anyone.

Oh brother.....you are berating someone who has been on the board twice as long as you......

[kengs333]

Oh brother.....you are berating someone who has been on the board twice as long as you......

A rather simplistic assesment of the situation, wouldn't you say?

[AngusThermopyle]

Oh brother.....you are berating someone who has been on the board twice as long as you......

Not that I'm directing anything against Exploited, but what does the length of time a member has been on a board have to do with the quality of posts? Of course there hasn't been much quality in this thread anyway, still, I fail to see any usefull significance to your length of time post.

Now, back to what I said pages ago. Has anyone seen video's of the assault. I didn't see any assault on a woman but I may not have seen the correct video's. I'd like to know more about what happened, not the propaganda version, the factual version.

[guyser]

Now, back to what I said pages ago. Has anyone seen video's of the assault. I didn't see any assault on a woman but I may not have seen the correct video's. I'd like to know more about what happened, not the propaganda version, the factual version.

The video links we were supplied, on the premise of "assault against a woman" , showed no assualt that I could find.

Even the link to the original website did not show any violence.Yet it did say, Violent assualt against so and so....yet nothing of the sort.

[charter.rights]

The video links we were supplied, on the premise of "assault against a woman" , showed no assualt that I could find.

Even the link to the original website did not show any violence.Yet it did say, Violent assualt against so and so....yet nothing of the sort.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseacti...ideoID=23565550

Some more video that shows that there was a push. The video caption says to slow it down just before the moment of contact.

From what I see the guy in the foreground (who I think might be McHale) has his arm ourstretched in the direction of the native woman (facing the camera). Whether or not it was a violent push is something for the courts to decide, but it certainly looks like contact was made with enough force to make the woman loose her balance.

You can make up your own mind on it, but I think there was a push...

[kengs333]

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseacti...ideoID=23565550

Some more video that shows that there was a push. The video caption says to slow it down just before the moment of contact.

From what I see the guy in the foreground (who I think might be McHale) has his arm ourstretched in the direction of the native woman (facing the camera). Whether or not it was a violent push is something for the courts to decide, but it certainly looks like contact was made with enough force to make the woman loose her balance.

You can make up your own mind on it, but I think there was a push...

Well, another timmer video...

Interesting is that it only has 105 views, which means that very, very few people know about it; what a coincidence that some who just happens to know about it would just happen to join this forum and provide us with a link to it.

From what I can see and here it would seem that there was a verbally abrassive Indian woman who stood in front of McHale and said "don't you f---ing push me" a couple of times, and then the video conveniently gets shakey when some sort of scuffle ensues. It's impossible to see just who started it, but it would seem to me that the woman was trying to instigate something and was attempting to get the slightest touch as a pretext for crying "assault". I've seen this kind of tactic before at protests, and it's a really pathetic move.

If anything, the video shows what kind of low-lifes some of the Six Nations people are. How many explatives that that woman use in the course of about TWO minutes? And again with a reference to his weight ("fat f---"). Who was that woman anyway? What makes her think that she's somehow an ideal specimine of the human race?

[charter.rights]

Well, another timmer video...

Interesting is that it only has 105 views, which means that very, very few people know about it; what a coincidence that some who just happens to know about it would just happen to join this forum and provide us with a link to it.

From what I can see and here it would seem that there was a verbally abrassive Indian woman who stood in front of McHale and said "don't you f---ing push me" a couple of times, and then the video conveniently gets shakey when some sort of scuffle ensues. It's impossible to see just who started it, but it would seem to me that the woman was trying to instigate something and was attempting to get the slightest touch as a pretext for crying "assault". I've seen this kind of tactic before at protests, and it's a really pathetic move.

If anything, the video shows what kind of low-lifes some of the Six Nations people are. How many explatives that that woman use in the course of about TWO minutes? And again with a reference to his weight ("fat f---"). Who was that woman anyway? What makes her think that she's somehow an ideal specimine of the human race?

No matter how bad the language gets, it never warrants physical assault. If you did what they suggested as I did and slowed down the video it shows McHale stretched out his arm in the direction of the woman. That would constitute an assault.

Who is Timmer? Oh wait I just revisited the site and see the videographer's name is "Tim".

[kengs333]

No matter how bad the language gets, it never warrants physical assault. If you did what they suggested as I did and slowed down the video it shows McHale stretched out his arm in the direction of the woman. That would constitute an assault.

I never said it did. I'm simply stating that in her own right the person who was allegedly assaulted was behaving with a low-life, and in my opinion was dileberately being obstructive to the point where some sort of physical contact was inevitable. In other words, it looked set up; and it's really interesting that timmer just happened to be in position to supposedly capture the assault on video. Whether the ambiguity of the actual moment of the alleged assault was deliberate or not is open to debate, but whatever the case, the video is inconclusive.

Who is Timmer? Oh wait I just revisited the site and see the videographer's name is "Tim".

Yeah, nice try.

[charter.rights]

I never said it did. I'm simply stating that in her own right the person who was allegedly assaulted was behaving with a low-life, and in my opinion was dileberately being obstructive to the point where some sort of physical contact was inevitable. In other words, it looked set up; and it's really interesting that timmer just happened to be in position to supposedly capture the assault on video. Whether the ambiguity of the actual moment of the alleged assault was deliberate or not is open to debate, but whatever the case, the video is inconclusive.

Yeah, nice try.

I don't see how McHale pushing someone resembles "set-up". The native woman was in his face, then he should have done the manly thing and turned and left. But instead his reaction seems to be that he pushed her away from him. That is assault no matter how you wrap it. I'm sure it will come out in court.

[AngusThermopyle]

I don't see how McHale pushing someone resembles "set-up". The native woman was in his face, then he should have done the manly thing and turned and left. But instead his reaction seems to be that he pushed her away from him. That is assault no matter how you wrap it. I'm sure it will come out in court.

Actually after watching the video it does look like a deliberate setup. If you watch carefully you can see her set the stage as to what follows. She does get in his face and manouvers herself to remain so, also the yelling about pushing when nothing has happened at that point.I didn't realize that the six nations criminals think he's such a threat to his cause that they'd go out of their way to set him up, and use the flimsiest of excuses to do so. It must be because public opinion is running strongly against them.

That video is the closest thing to proof I've seen so far. It still however falls into the category of propaganda though, since the whole video appears to be no more than an exercise in propaganda. I'm afraid you'll have to do better than that in order to convince me of the virtue of the Natives cause Jenny.

[charter.rights]

Actually after watching the video it does look like a deliberate setup. If you watch carefully you can see her set the stage as to what follows. She does get in his face and manouvers herself to remain so, also the yelling about pushing when nothing has happened at that point.I didn't realize that the six nations criminals think he's such a threat to his cause that they'd go out of their way to set him up, and use the flimsiest of excuses to do so. It must be because public opinion is running strongly against them.

That video is the closest thing to proof I've seen so far. It still however falls into the category of propaganda though, since the whole video appears to be no more than an exercise in propaganda. I'm afraid you'll have to do better than that in order to convince me of the virtue of the Natives cause Jenny.

My name isn't Jenny or anyone any of you know so please stop the incriminations.

McHale is a racist and hangs out with known white supremacists. He is also a fundie and likes to hurl insults at non-Christians. He is not feared as a criminal but angers people by promoting his racism where he is not wanted.

Unless Mchale was a party to the "set-up", then he must take responsibility for his own actions. The push was deliberate and no amount of "in-your-face" warrants his reaction to it. That would make him a criminal for sure, but he is loathed for his childish take on serious issues.