Naomi Klein's new book

[JerrySeinfeld]

Has anyone heard about or read this pieces of shit?

I haven't read it yet, but I have read an extensive interview with Klein on the thesis and have also listened to a speech given by her on the book's subject.

As I understand it, she has this pet conspirancy theory that basically posits that "the capitalists" (as if there is a big organized mob similar to star trek's "borg") take advantage (and create?) disasters worldwide so that they can come in and establish a free enterprise system wherever these disasters take place.

What planet is this woman on? In her speech she sounded like she was desperately clinging to the concept that the battle between socialism and capitalism is even in fact still undecided!

Here are some reviews

From Publishers Weekly

The neo-liberal economic policies—privatization, free trade, slashed social spending—that the Chicago School and the economist Milton Friedman have foisted on the world are catastrophic in two senses, argues this vigorous polemic. Because their results are disastrous—depressions, mass poverty, private corporations looting public wealth, by the author's accounting—their means must be cataclysmic, dependent on political upheavals and natural disasters as coercive pretexts for free-market reforms the public would normally reject. Journalist Klein (No Logo) chronicles decades of such disasters, including the Chicago School makeovers launched by South American coups; the corrupt sale of Russia's state economy to oligarchs following the collapse of the Soviet Union; the privatization of New Orleans's public schools after Katrina; and the seizure of wrecked fishing villages by resort developers after the Asian tsunami. Klein's economic and political analyses are not always meticulous. Likening free-market shock therapies to electroshock torture, she conflates every misdeed of right-wing dictatorships with their economic programs and paints a too simplistic picture of the Iraq conflict as a struggle over American-imposed neo-liberalism. Still, much of her critique hits home, as she demonstrates how free-market ideologues welcome, and provoke, the collapse of other people's economies. The result is a powerful populist indictment of economic orthodoxy. (Sept.)

Copyright © Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

From Booklist

Both admirers and detractors agree that the late Nobel Prize laureate Milton Friedman was an extraordinarily influential economist. Canadian Klein assails Friedman's free-market precepts as their exponents have applied them to a series of formerly state-dominated economies since 1975, when Friedman persuaded Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet to adopt his program. Klein's entirely negative interpretation of the results of "shock therapy" only lays the foundation for her book's thesis: that Friedman's prescriptions require a crisis and are ineluctably bound with the application of violence. This perspective informs her criticism––condemnation, in fact––of reform programs in the last three decades that have aimed to separate the state from the economy in Bolivia, Poland, Russia, China, the UK, and elsewhere. The process of market liberalization, Klein maintains, has created a "disaster capitalism complex," consisting of corporations that thrive on catastrophe; the author particularly arraigns security and logistics firms in the U.S. and Israel. Assiduously researched, energetically expressed, Klein's report bears an ideological perspective that won't leave readers neutral about her economic interpretations. Taylor, Gilbert

[August1991]

Has anyone heard about or read this pieces of shit?

I haven't read this book or even flipped through it at a bookstore. I did read most of her first book "No Logo". IMV, No Logo showed an astounding ignorance of basic economics and I was surprised that it received so much attention. I reckon that Klein is a good publicist.

Anyway, I recently listened to a Klein interview (on CBC radio, of course) doing PR for her latest book. I was surprised to hear her comment on her previous book No Logo by admitting that she was young and naive when she wrote it and her opinions have evolved since then.

Has she no shame?

[kuzadd]

"the capitalists" (as if there is a big organized mob similar to star trek's "borg") take advantage (and create?) disasters worldwide so that they can come in and establish a free enterprise system wherever these disasters take place.

Yah, that premise the rich and powerful, profiting off of the misery of the poor, is such a stretch. LOL!

I mean it never ever happened, in the past, present or in the future.

Oh wait a minute, massive profits off of the misery of the Iraqis.

Haliburton, Kellog/brown/root, all the private mercs, inc. Blackwater.

control of iraqs financial system , oil, and agriculture, enriching western corporations.

Corporations profiting from the misery of the masses.

So hard to believe, NOT!

[scribblet]

Has anyone heard about or read this pieces of shit?

As I understand it, she has this pet conspirancy theory that basically posits that "the capitalists" (as if there is a big organized mob similar to star trek's "borg") take advantage (and create?) disasters worldwide so that they can come in and establish a free enterprise system wherever these disasters take place.

That anyone would actually believe 'the capitalists' are organized and can create natural disasters is mind boggling. This is on a par with Bush/Cheny's 'hurricane machine' in the White House basement LOL To me, this nothing but sour grapes from people who don't like to see someone making more than they do - we should all be equally poor doncha know.

Edited November 16, 2007 by scriblett

[kuzadd]

That anyone would actually believe 'the capitalists' are organized and can create natural disasters is mind boggling. This is on a par with Bush/Cheny's 'hurricane machine' in the White House basement LOL To me, this nothing but sour grapes from people who don't like to see someone making more than they do - we should all be equally poor doncha know.

the capitalists are quite organized, let's not kid ourselves, they were lining up for 'work" even before the US attacked Iraq.

waiting to take advantage of the disaster that is Iraq.

But one example.

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/rebuilding_iraq/index.asp

"Rebuilding Iraq -- The Contractors

Even before the war in Iraq began March 20, the Bush administration was considering plans to help rebuild the country after fighting ceased. According to news reports in early March, the U.S. Agency for International Development secretly asked six U.S. companies to submit bids for a $900 million government contract to repair and reconstruct water systems, roads, bridges, schools and hospitals in Iraq.

Doesn't it make sense, though, in the whole realm of war profiteering, which has a long long history?

hey, it's better to attack and deride people who point these facts out though, eh?

Quick throw the words "conspiracy" around.

As a way to squelch discussion on the plain, simple facts.

shall we get into war profiteering in ww2??

[ScottSA]

Kuzzad: Klein's book was written for people just like you! You know, catering to the ignorant conspiracy minded left, evoking the usual anti-capitalist bigotries and displaying an astounding lack of understanding as to how the real world works.

Klein and her acolytes seem to think the world is run by a cabal of evil rat-faced bankers with their collective hand on the handle of a money cranking machine with which they control the destiny of billions... [enter scene] as the wind whips through the castle in eerie gusts, cackles of glee and lust echo from the walls and shrieks of agony resound from the proletarian dungeons below...Bush and his henchmen are seen huddled together on the rush-strewn floor in the flickering light of a dying hearth-fire, peering over the protocals of Zion, stopping every now and then to raise a sinister howl over the demise of another poor widow...

[kuzadd]

Kuzzad: Klein's book was written for people just like you! You know, catering to the ignorant conspiracy minded left, evoking the usual anti-capitalist bigotries and displaying an astounding lack of understanding as to how the real world works.

Klein and her acolytes seem to think the world is run by a cabal of evil rat-faced bankers with their collective hand on the handle of a money cranking machine with which they control the destiny of billions... [enter scene] as the wind whips through the castle in eerie gusts, cackles of glee and lust echo from the walls and shrieks of agony resound from the proletarian dungeons below...Bush and his henchmen are seen huddled together on the rush-strewn floor in the flickering light of a dying hearth-fire, peering over the protocals of Zion, stopping every now and then to raise a sinister howl over the demise of another poor widow...

actually having NEVER read even one Klein book, you make a huge assumption, and wrong again.

But given the FACTS of history, it is not at all difficult to say that capitalists have regularily profited from misery and disaster, as we see today in Iraq.

Your description while fabulously swishy and colourful, is not grounded in any sort of reality.

In fact and I'll reiterate"

hey, it's better to attack and deride people who point these facts out though, eh?

Quick throw the words "conspiracy" around.

As a way to squelch discussion on the plain, simple facts.

as you choose scottsa, as you choose

The concept Klein is promoting ( now I did listen to a lengthy interview with her re: this book) In fact it is absolutely nothing new. Maybe there are some new ways it is done, but profiting on misery and disaster, is absolutely a given.

Right down to lining up contracts prior to the attack on Iraq?

On which in fact huge profits have been generated on the misery of war.

Just the facts scott, I know that's very difficult, but it is just the facts.

[JerrySeinfeld]

actually having NEVER read even one Klein book, you make a huge assumption, and wrong again.

But given the FACTS of history, it is not at all difficult to say that capitalists have regularily profited from misery and disaster, as we see today in Iraq.

Your description while fabulously swishy and colourful, is not grounded in any sort of reality.

In fact and I'll reiterate"

as you choose scottsa, as you choose

The concept Klein is promoting ( now I did listen to a lengthy interview with her re: this book) In fact it is absolutely nothing new. Maybe there are some new ways it is done, but profiting on misery and disaster, is absolutely a given.

Right down to lining up contracts prior to the attack on Iraq?

On which in fact huge profits have been generated on the misery of war.

Just the facts scott, I know that's very difficult, but it is just the facts.

ANyone who believes these things about capitalism has never really participated in business. If you spent a year hanging around businesses and their management from various sectors you would see a completely disorganized mosaic of people trying to make sense of their environment, understand the challenges and opportunities, adapt to changing legislative, monetary, environmental, political, tax, labour, interest rate, financial landscapes and make money in the process.

Not only that, but capitalists by their very definition are in competition with eachother if I can factor in all of the above mentinoed challenges and still see a viable plan to embark upon a profitable enterprise, the last thing I'd want to do is share it with the businessman down the block so that he can get in no it too, reduce my profit and increase the competition.

The idea that capitalists as a "group" have a master plan to take over the world is to see the world from a centrally planned (ie. communist) point of view, which is why Klein is so good a visualizing such a scenario while being completely out of touch with reality; she sees the world from her point of view.

To say that capitalists profit from other people's misery is to see the world with free-enterprise-hating blinders on. Capitalists profit from all kinds of things. They profit from other people's happiness. They profit from people getting better health care, better drugs. Capitalists profit from higher oil prices. Capitals profit from lower oil proces. Capitalsts profit from war. Capitalists profit from peace. Capitalist....well...profit, period (but not all the time!).

If I a volcano flattens some far off city and a whole bunch of governments want to help rebuild the roads, heck as an infrastructure contractor I'm gonna put my bid in for the job. That doesn't mak me a global conspirator.

[Michael Hardner]

Scott,

Kuzzad: Klein's book was written for people just like you! You know, catering to the ignorant conspiracy minded left, evoking the usual anti-capitalist bigotries and displaying an astounding lack of understanding as to how the real world works.

Klein and her acolytes seem to think the world is run by a cabal of evil rat-faced bankers with their collective hand on the handle of a money cranking machine with which they control the destiny of billions... [enter scene] as the wind whips through the castle in eerie gusts, cackles of glee and lust echo from the walls and shrieks of agony resound from the proletarian dungeons below...Bush and his henchmen are seen huddled together on the rush-strewn floor in the flickering light of a dying hearth-fire, peering over the protocals of Zion, stopping every now and then to raise a sinister howl over the demise of another poor widow...

Alas, you describe many left-of-centre types here, including me in days of past.

Thanks to the evil mouth-breathing righties like you and Auguste, lefties like Morris and me have evolved and for that I thank you. I'll try to get you a better cage after the revolution.

[Black Dog]

Has anyone heard about or read this pieces of shit?

I haven't read it yet, but I have read an extensive interview with Klein on the thesis and have also listened to a speech given by her on the book's subject.

As I understand it, she has this pet conspirancy theory that basically posits that "the capitalists" (as if there is a big organized mob similar to star trek's "borg") take advantage (and create?) disasters worldwide so that they can come in and establish a free enterprise system wherever these disasters take place.

That sounds pretty implausible. Your assessment, I mean.

I don't think Klein posits that "the capitalists" are a cabal or conspiracy. Rather, she makes the pretty reasonable claim that exploiting crisis and disasters are part of the m.o. of free marketeers. There's no organized conspiracy, anymore than the vultures that circle a dying man in the desert are organized.

[JerrySeinfeld]

That sounds pretty implausible. Your assessment, I mean.

I don't think Klein posits that "the capitalists" are a cabal or conspiracy. Rather, she makes the pretty reasonable claim that exploiting crisis and disasters are part of the m.o. of free marketeers. There's no organized conspiracy, anymore than the vultures that circle a dying man in the desert are organized.

You might want to watch this short film by Klein before assuming she hasn't entirely gone off the deep end.

In the film it seems pretty obvious to me that she is implying something much more insidious than mere opportunism.

Watch it - it's short - then tell me if you still disagree.

[kuzadd]

ANyone who believes these things about capitalism has never really participated in business. If you spent a year hanging around businesses and their management from various sectors you would see a completely disorganized mosaic of people trying to make sense of their environment, understand the challenges and opportunities, adapt to changing legislative, monetary, environmental, political, tax, labour, interest rate, financial landscapes and make money in the process.

Not only that, but capitalists by their very definition are in competition with eachother if I can factor in all of the above mentinoed challenges and still see a viable plan to embark upon a profitable enterprise, the last thing I'd want to do is share it with the businessman down the block so that he can get in no it too, reduce my profit and increase the competition.

The idea that capitalists as a "group" have a master plan to take over the world is to see the world from a centrally planned (ie. communist) point of view, which is why Klein is so good a visualizing such a scenario while being completely out of touch with reality; she sees the world from her point of view.

To say that capitalists profit from other people's misery is to see the world with free-enterprise-hating blinders on. Capitalists profit from all kinds of things. They profit from other people's happiness. They profit from people getting better health care, better drugs. Capitalists profit from higher oil prices. Capitals profit from lower oil proces. Capitalsts profit from war. Capitalists profit from peace. Capitalist....well...profit, period (but not all the time!).

If I a volcano flattens some far off city and a whole bunch of governments want to help rebuild the roads, heck as an infrastructure contractor I'm gonna put my bid in for the job. That doesn't make me a global conspirator.

Jerry:

No one is claiming anything is a GLOBAL CONSPIRACY, except you.

while I hate to point out the naivete.

and the use of nonsensical language?

Unfortunately......

"To say that capitalists profit from other people's misery is to see the world with free-enterprise-hating blinders on"

Untrue.

Unfortunately it is to see things the way they are.

Are you telling me honestly that haliburton is not profiting off, of the misery of the Iraq war?(war profiteering, nothing new there right?)

In fact, to use another industry, as an example that profits (earns money) from misery, look at the news industry, every tragedy, murder etc., is paraded, sometimes rather garishly about, to increase profits.

How about all the books written that profit off of horrific murders?( Homolka and Bernardo)

Recall during the Ice storm in Canada, when some "capitalists" increased the price of generators, when they were needed so desperately . Supply and demand, right?

Tight supply plus high demand equals increased prices

like Iraq's oil.

Face it, and face the simple facts, profiting from the misery of others is done all the time.

In many cases, In many industries. All throughout history.

[kuzadd]

You might want to watch this short film by Klein before assuming she hasn't entirely gone off the deep end.

In the film it seems pretty obvious to me that she is implying something much more insidious than mere opportunism.

Watch it - it's short - then tell me if you still disagree.

wow Jerry, I watched like 2 minutes and realized, a metaphor was being drawn.

between two scenarios. Symbolism.

I stopped it.

I'll watch the rest later.

But much adieu about nothing.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20030512/editors

Where is the leader with the courage to say, as Franklin Roosevelt did during World War II, "I don't want to see a single war millionaire created in the United States as a result of this world disaster"?

.

" During World War II Harry Truman referred to some forms of war profiteering as "treason."

war profiteering, profiting from misery

Edited November 17, 2007 by kuzadd

[JerrySeinfeld]

Jerry:

No one is claiming anything is a GLOBAL CONSPIRACY, except you.

while I hate to point out the naivete.

and the use of nonsensical language?

Unfortunately......

"To say that capitalists profit from other people's misery is to see the world with free-enterprise-hating blinders on"

Untrue.

Unfortunately it is to see things the way they are.

Are you telling me honestly that haliburton is not profiting off, of the misery of the Iraq war?(war profiteering, nothing new there right?)

In fact, to use another industry, as an example that profits (earns money) from misery, look at the news industry, every tragedy, murder etc., is paraded, sometimes rather garishly about, to increase profits.

How about all the books written that profit off of horrific murders?( Homolka and Bernardo)

Recall during the Ice storm in Canada, when some "capitalists" increased the price of generators, when they were needed so desperately . Supply and demand, right?

Tight supply plus high demand equals increased prices

like Iraq's oil.

Face it, and face the simple facts, profiting from the misery of others is done all the time.

In many cases, In many industries. All throughout history.

You obviously missed the point. Capitalists profit from all kinds of things, not misery exclusively.

To say that there is some kind of special link between misery and capitalism is to see the world with blinders on. There is no more of a link between capitalism and misery than there is between capitalism and sex, capitalism and air conditioning, capitalism and art or capitalism and vacations.

That is the point. Klein is drawing a special unique relationship between capitalistic opportunism and other people's misery, which is a false, misleading and narrowminded presumption.