buffycat Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 Telegraph American officials are pressing the Afghan government for an escalation of the war on drugs, including the use of controversial chemical spraying, following the failure of British-led efforts. Last year Afghanistan produced 93 per cent of the world’s opium They are so keen to adopt an aggressive policy after another record drug harvest in Afghanistan, that the US ambassador to Kabul has offered to have himself sprayed with herbicide. *** Go for it Mr Ambassador! Meanwhile - if Afghani poppies are responsible for 93% of the world's opium does that REALLY mean that someone else control's the other 7&? And this 7% accounts for ALL the opiates used legally by the entire world? I'm with the Senlis (sp) council on this one: legalize and regulate all Afghani opium poppy crops. There is a shortage of pain killers worldwide anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 Well, the Taleban did something right in regards to the opium trade. They had practically killed it. Opium was not grown much if at all near the end of the Taleban government. Now it is nothing but opium. Solve one problem, others are created. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shavluk Posted October 12, 2007 Report Share Posted October 12, 2007 No matter what the Americans nor the Taliban say the opium trade in Afghanistan has fluctuate very little for going on about a thousand years now. So OK ,,kids can now buy a coca cola in down town any where Afghanistan for a gram of opium but its always been there I agree with senlis and it is going to happen , eventually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottSA Posted October 12, 2007 Report Share Posted October 12, 2007 (edited) It's interesting that one of the arguments trotted out by the left in opposition to the mission in Afghanistan has been the resurgence of the opium industry following the invasion, an argument inevitably punctuated by the observation that our enemies had supposedly stamped it out. Now it appears that some on the left are also against its restamping out. It must feel wonderful to be able to emote against the injustice of a thing, and in the next breath emote against its cure. Edited October 12, 2007 by ScottSA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortunata Posted October 12, 2007 Report Share Posted October 12, 2007 It's interesting that one of the arguments trotted out by the left in opposition to the mission in Afghanistan has been the resurgence of the opium industry following the invasion, an argument inevitably punctuated by the observation that our enemies had supposedly stamped it out. Now it appears that some on the left are also against its restamping out. It must feel wonderful to be able to emote against the injustice of a thing, and in the next breath emote against its cure. There is a time and a place for everything. Right now there isn't enough security to completely stamp it out and if it is, what then do Afghani farmers live on? (but having said that what did they live on before?) It can't be wiped out overnight and the proceeds from poppies are funding the Taliban who are killing our soldiers. We can buy the harvest thereby ensuring people have money for food and get extra brownie points for them not having to deal with the Taliban, which, from many of the reports we hear, ordinary people are happier not having to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted October 12, 2007 Report Share Posted October 12, 2007 The Taliban will kill the farmers that deal with us instead of them. So naive. The Taliban control the poppy crop. Do you want your tax dollars buying arms and IEDs for the Taliban to use against our troops? You can't just walk in and offer farmers direct cash unless you have the security resources to protect them from relentless Taliban attacks. If we don't have the security to torch the fields, we certainly don't have the resources to protect farmers. If the RCMP just walked up to a Hell's Angels grow op and volunteered to buy all the weed from the individual running it, that guy is going to be in some rough shape in a hurry. Now multiply the profit and the danger and you've got Afghanistan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shavluk Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 No actually we don't. When we eventually do what I have explained and prefer with the Taliban they will just take off their uniforms and go back to farming. If the RCMP came into the village and bought all the pot at what it is worth and weren't going to kill them any more or even jail them ,, well all would be fine and the bikers would probably take off their uniforms and start farming again Assholes in every bunch so you are right we may need a few cops /army around to still kill a few stragglers. By and large things would settle down quite quickly , I volunteer to make it so. That's just called """a cease fire""",,,,, simple process really senlis will come with me. Maybe we can still give back some of the tanks and trade it in for hospital equipment or school equipment Bottom line is all it takes is to stop trying to stop people from playing with them selves either through drugs ,exercise ,sex what ever imagine or remember when they would bind your hand for masturbating ,give you salt peter and tell you quite seriously that you would go blind ? the law was the law though then and probably is still very much like that now isn't it hahhaha Just takes stopping trying to rule people and stop their choices by fear and punishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 I read an article where it said that Bush asked the president to get rid of the poppies and he said no, because the farmer's needed the money from the crop, BUT there are also people within his gov't that profit from the sell of the poppies and the majority of the opium went to Europe and the US, the biggest drug users. Its true the Taliban had the opium trade nearly nil and they were going to make their money in oil but things didn't work out between them and Cheney and then 9/11 happened and they were invaded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottSA Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 I read an article where it said that Bush asked the president to get rid of the poppies and he said no, because the farmer's needed the money from the crop, BUT there are also people within his gov't that profit from the sell of the poppies and the majority of the opium went to Europe and the US, the biggest drug users. Its true the Taliban had the opium trade nearly nil and they were going to make their money in oil but things didn't work out between them and Cheney and then 9/11 happened and they were invaded. I read an article that said we never really landed on the moon. I read another article that said space aliens have taken over the leadership of all the countries. I don't know how they managed to find room in the rush to do that, what with the illuminati, the Elders of Zion, the Knights Templar and other such Black Handish groups rushing around trying to do the same thing, but hey, that's what the article said, so it must be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 (edited) So naive. The Taliban control the poppy crop. Do you want your tax dollars buying arms and IEDs for the Taliban to use against our troops? This makes sense how? Since under Taleban rule, the poppy crops were practicaly eliminated. So they have done a 180 on the opium issue then. It would be strange to get rid of them one second, then want to support it later on. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1146640.stm And actually, plenty of the opium hit the European markets. Scotty It's interesting that one of the arguments trotted out by the left in opposition to the mission in Afghanistan has been the resurgence of the opium industry following the invasion, an argument inevitably punctuated by the observation that our enemies had supposedly stamped it out. Now it appears that some on the left are also against its restamping out. It must feel wonderful to be able to emote against the injustice of a thing, and in the next breath emote against its cure. I would love to see the poppy crops eliminated.... again. But the US cannot create a safe environment in the country for farmers to grow real needed crops. The Afghanistan government cannot create the safe environment. Under one ruler, the Taleban did one thing, now they have another leader, and want to grow opium again. The Taleban is now the bad guy growing the opium, or farmers want to join the Taleban so they can grow opium. Does not make sense. There are hypocrytes on both sides of this fight. edited for spelling Edited October 13, 2007 by GostHacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 During the Taliban 'crackdown', it was estimated that they had 3 years worth of Opium crops stashed away for future use. From Oct 2001: --------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh me father was an Ulsterman, a Protestant was he My mother was a Catholic girl, from county Cork came she They were married in two churches, lived happily enough Until the day that I was born then things got rather rough. Oh, it was the greatest mix-up that you have ever seen My father he was Orange and my mother she was Green. ---Irish Traditional Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortunata Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 The Taliban will kill the farmers that deal with us instead of them. So naive. The Taliban control the poppy crop. Do you want your tax dollars buying arms and IEDs for the Taliban to use against our troops? You can't just walk in and offer farmers direct cash unless you have the security resources to protect them from relentless Taliban attacks. If we don't have the security to torch the fields, we certainly don't have the resources to protect farmers. If the RCMP just walked up to a Hell's Angels grow op and volunteered to buy all the weed from the individual running it, that guy is going to be in some rough shape in a hurry. Now multiply the profit and the danger and you've got Afghanistan. Maybe you're right but it does not solve the big problem right now. If the farmers sell to us the Taliban kill them. We torch the fields, create real hardship for them they join the Taliban. Then we kill them. Then all their brothers, uncles, cousins join the Taliban to fight those who kill their own. It's a lose lose situation for us isn't it? When something isn't working it's time to try something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottSA Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 Maybe you're right but it does not solve the big problem right now. If the farmers sell to us the Taliban kill them. We torch the fields, create real hardship for them they join the Taliban. Then we kill them. Then all their brothers, uncles, cousins join the Taliban to fight those who kill their own. It's a lose lose situation for us isn't it? When something isn't working it's time to try something else. They haven't even started this yet and you're calling it a failure? What exactly is the "something else" you suggest? It's easy to be a critic, but what's your solution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 They haven't even started this yet and you're calling it a failure? What exactly is the "something else" you suggest? It's easy to be a critic, but what's your solution? We will be 10 years down the road asking the same questions. You are just as much of a critic as us, but you seem to support the War on Terror and the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan. You got a solution? I am open to hear them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 The West has accomplished just about all they can in Afghanistan. Most of the terrorists have left the country, and we aren't going to defeat the Taliban, so let's just leave. This poppy spraying is just more of the West f'ing with another country. Who cares about opium? People who inject heroin into their arms do so on their own accord, its sad but i don't really feel sorry for them. I've never heard of people being held down by force & having heroin injected into their arms without their consent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottSA Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 We will be 10 years down the road asking the same questions. You are just as much of a critic as us, but you seem to support the War on Terror and the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan. You got a solution? I am open to hear them. In other words admit there's a problem, and you claim to know this won't work, but are not willing to commit to a solution. I already have committed to a solution, by my support of this policy, so the onus isn't on me to present another. That would be silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennie Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 This is just more friggen US bull headed stupidity, that will put our soldiers in danger!!! Can you imagine the backlash against the spraying? And who is there to take the flak? Canadian soldiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottSA Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 This is just more friggen US bull headed stupidity, that will put our soldiers in danger!!!Can you imagine the backlash against the spraying? And who is there to take the flak? Canadian soldiers. What are you talking about? You mean people will shoot at us? I think they're alreay doing that. How do you propose to deal with opium production in Afghanistan? I mean realistically, not by "teaching" them how to grow rutabagas instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortunata Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 They haven't even started this yet and you're calling it a failure? What exactly is the "something else" you suggest? It's easy to be a critic, but what's your solution? The USA has been destroying poppy fields. Where have you been? I have already voiced my solution. It may not be perfect but it may work; surely it is worth an experimental try in a region. We'll never know though because of high handed, very dangerous tactics imo, of the one track approach. The war on drugs has never been successful and it never will be successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgly Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 So it's not about a war on terror? It's a war on drugs? I love it. Why doesn't the US just subsidize the Afghani farmers to turn their fields fallow? How much would that cost? I'll bet it would be a damned sight less than the cost of a fully equipped army! Or grow corn? Yeah that's it. Why don't they just get the Afghanis to grow corn. And produce gasohol. Yeah. That's the ticket. On the other hand, they could legalize marijiuana and get them to grow pot. O wait, how about bruseels sprouts? They're always pretty hard to find in the winter... I have an idea. Why doesn't Canada offer to fund the subsidization of Afghani poppy growers instead of paying for an army of young people who are getting killed? I'll bet it would be a lot cheaper to pay these guys more than the greedy drug lords pay them than to pay for an army of young Canadians who we need right now back here building our country. But then, what do I know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 Why doesn't the US just subsidize the Afghani farmers to turn their fields fallow? That is an idea. But you would still need soldiers to protect them from the Taliban for accepting US bucks and from the Druglords for not growing opium. Not to mention, everyone would start growing opium..... Here is an article on the subject http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/10/14/asia/poppies.php Unable to do that (both because of corruption and because peasant farmers in Turkey can vote), Turkey started licensing farmers in 1974 to grow poppies for the morphine trade, and the United States gave protected-market status to Turkey and India in 1981, obligating itself to buy 80 percent of the raw material for American painkillers from them. Why not, the Senlis Council and others argue, let Afghanistan join the legitimate supply chain?Schweich and others reply that it is simply impractical - Afghanistan grows 93 percent of the world's poppies; its crop is 15 times the size of India's. Also, heroin smugglers pay better. For example, India officially paid its legal farmers only $20 to $50 per kilogram last year, or $9 to $23 per pound, while farmers interviewed in central India in May said illegal buyers were offering $100 to $190 per kilogram. Prices in Afghanistan, at roughly the same time, were about $125. "Why would anybody switch to legal opium when they can get those prices?" Schweich asked. Making up the difference with price supports - another idea with U.S. precedents - would cost as much as an extra $800 million. "You can do the math," he said. "If we did it, no one in Afghanistan would grow any other crop, we'd be paying billions for it, and it would become a narco-welfare state." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 I hope this crap they're gonna spray is as safe as Agent Orange was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shavluk Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 The West has accomplished just about all they can in Afghanistan. Most of the terrorists have left the country, and we aren't going to defeat the Taliban, so let's just leave.This poppy spraying is just more of the West f'ing with another country. Who cares about opium? People who inject heroin into their arms do so on their own accord, its sad but i don't really feel sorry for them. I've never heard of people being held down by force & having heroin injected into their arms without their consent. Hear !! hear !!! well said No matter how many Internet anonymous profiles you wanted to inject,,,,,,,hahhahahaha People here may not be aware of a couple of things ,,,, the spraying in Colombia for the dreaded coca plant and the unnatural horrible rise in Colombian children born with disfigurement and mutation because of it. Sleep tight in your comfy beds some of you as your attitude helps create horror story lives for some others , enjoy your comfort. What is happening on this planet is wilful negligence plain and simple , wilful neglect we deserve the place where I see us getting to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgly Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 I hope this crap they're gonna spray is as safe as Agent Orange was. Ha ha. Good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shavluk Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 So it's not about a war on terror? It's a war on drugs? I love it.Why doesn't the US just subsidize the Afghani farmers to turn their fields fallow? How much would that cost? I'll bet it would be a damned sight less than the cost of a fully equipped army! Or grow corn? Yeah that's it. Why don't they just get the Afghanis to grow corn. And produce gasohol. Yeah. That's the ticket. On the other hand, they could legalize marijiuana and get them to grow pot. O wait, how about bruseels sprouts? They're always pretty hard to find in the winter... I have an idea. Why doesn't Canada offer to fund the subsidization of Afghani poppy growers instead of paying for an army of young people who are getting killed? I'll bet it would be a lot cheaper to pay these guys more than the greedy drug lords pay them than to pay for an army of young Canadians who we need right now back here building our country. But then, what do I know? Not much if you think all those things will grow there Keep increasing the penalties and people will be growing pot at the space station Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.