Melanie_

Great . Students will latch on to this one quickly!

Hey, PR, we can go to the Oscar after party together!!

PSingh - you may have come on the board to discuss this particular issue, but I hope you stick around to discuss other issues, as well.

In another thread we talked about whether or not homosexuals should raise children, and some argued that the public's perceptions and bigotry toward homosexuals would be a good reason to deny them children. Others argued that people shouldn't be punished for someone else's ignorance and bigotry. I see this as being fundamentally the same. Should Sikhs be denied their freedom of religion to carry a kirpan because the general public is unaware of the tenets of Sikhism, and perceives the kirpan to be a threat? I've never heard of an incident of a kirpan being used as a weapon. It seems there is an easy solution to this, though; dull flat short blades fulfill the requirements of wearing a kirpan just as well as the long sharp blades do. Compromise on both sides.

I like your idealism, in trying to do something positive for developing nations, but I'm not buying into another round of democracy by the sword. Good luck convincing your fellow Albertans to give up their cash!

http://www.sikhs.org/art12.htm Just a bit of background reading, for those who want to see both sides of this issue...

Why, Monty, I'm flattered! Should I pin my hopes on an Oscar?? But I don't think you've been paying close attention, as I haven't really talked about the Iraqis at all - maybe you need to go back and re-read the thread?

Thanks for the links. Argus, I think your statement was made in the context of trying to make a very different point, and it was brought into this thread just to be inflammatory. But regardless of the context, it marginalizes the physical trauma of rape, and completely discounts the more far reaching emotional trauma that often results. If it were just a result of drugs and alcohol we could doubt all the men out there who drink and smoke up; in reality alcohol and drugs just lower the inhibitions of men who already are capable of the crime. You sound like you are making excuses for rape, Argus, which I hope was not your intent. August, I will look for that book, but I don't expect to be converted. We may be able to change the guilt many rape victims experience, and I'm all for that - they did nothing wrong. But the physical and emotional pain, and the loss of trust, the loss of power, the loss of security, would not be balanced out by saying, "oh well, that's the hazard of being a woman living in a war zone." If we could educate women not to fear rape, could we not also educate those men who become rapists to prevent it from happening in the first place?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Can someone post a link to the origin of this statement? I want to read it in context before I say anything.

Is there really such a need for guns for self defense? How many of us have ever been in a situation where we said, "If only I could defend myself with a gun right now!" A very pessimistic view of humanity's future - is there no opportunity for people to grow in a positive direction in regards to morality, values and respect? You live in a very dreary world!

That would be great, if they took no for an answer. But no matter how many times he says no, they keep calling back, questioning his patriotism, his committment to democracy, etc.

Maybe you should give a good argument against it, then, rather than just dismissing it. Fleabag is right, of course, the Bush girls would be walking targets, and their "noble sacrifice" would be all but assured. I don't wish them harm, despite what you might think from my posts, but I also don't see their lives as more valuable than my nephew, or any of the other barely adults who are sent over there.

Montgomery Burns, If another dictator comes in, but rather than being American-hating turns out to support America's interests in the Middle East, do you really think Bush would care if there were ever a vote in Iraq again? A mess, just as it is turning out to be. As it should be, since they are the ones supporting the war. But, how many politicians' kids are overseas? If Bush is so big on the noble sacrifice of the nation's youth, why aren't his own kids enlisting?

I wish I could. Unfortunately, there is NO good reason why they invaded Iraq.

Unbeleivable how the warmongers can spin just about anything to justify their incompetence. Although I know it will fall on deaf ears, I am compelled to say, yet again, Bush did not go into Iraq to free the Iraqi people. That line was just a convenient ass covering manouvre that came later, when his original pretext for invasion was blown. And if anyone is exploiting the dead, it is the war supporters themselves, using the pointless deaths of America's youth as a rallying cry to send even more to their deaths. My nephew in Florida turned 18 in January, and he has been getting constant calls from recruiters (they get the contact info from the schools), wrapping the war up in the flag, spouting patriotic tripe. My sister in law's response to each call has been, "when George Bush's daughters join the army, my son will too."

And some of them, when hanging out, don't even have any panth-e-on (silent 'e') (Sorry, bad pun, but I'm still on my first coffee ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> On that note, I'm off to class to shape the young minds of tomorrow. Wish them luck!!

OMG, a sensible post!!!! Congratulations in advance, Grandma!!!! ( No offense intended, I figured I'd just give you a leg-up on the upcoming new moniker ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The moniker is more trouble than you would think. My self image is not as Grandma, Granny, Baba, etc. My preference is Great Goddess of Grandmothers, but my family thinks that is a bit much for a baby to say... Any suggestions??? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So just have the kid call you "GG" or "Gigi" for short. Being a goddess, do you know where I might meet a goddess of lapdancers??? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> They tend to hang out in a different pantheon, but I'll see what I can do.

OMG, a sensible post!!!! Congratulations in advance, Grandma!!!! ( No offense intended, I figured I'd just give you a leg-up on the upcoming new moniker ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The moniker is more trouble than you would think. My self image is not as Grandma, Granny, Baba, etc. My preference is Great Goddess of Grandmothers, but my family thinks that is a bit much for a baby to say... Any suggestions???

I'm looking forward to hearing about the results.

I don't see how you get from IMT's post to your claim that lefties are possibly homosexual and are not Christian. Your view of Christianity has no room for tolerance of gays and lesbians, but you don't speak for all Christians. Many Christians still manage to respect differing views, and don't insist that their beliefs are imposed on everyone around them - that is what I understood IMT to say. As for who/what I am, this is the Internet, and I can be whoever I want. In reality, though, I am a married mother of 4 about to become a grandmother - does that picture fit with your assumption?

I'm voting for David Suzuki. He is distinctive in his field, and communicates ideas and influences debate outside of it. Plus, he looks excellent in a fig leaf! http://host101.ipowerweb.com/~girlsgof/ima...zukifigleaf.jpg

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Join the club. I've given up on trying to make sense of his/her logic.

You are thinking of democracy purely from the standpoint of how we elect a government. I'm talking about the value that underlies a democratic society - each citizen is equal. Diversity, then, becomes just another aspect of who someone is - regardless of their sexual orientation, skin colour, gender, income level, etc, they are all still equal in terms of rights owed them by society and the responsibilities they in turn owe to society. Does any country truly live up to the ideals of democracy? Maybe not. But just having the right to debate this, to push each other's buttons and defend our perspective freely, without worrying that we will say the wrong thing and offend the powers that be, means we are better off than most.

Leafless - As a matter of fact, it is the type of country I want to live in. A truly democratic society is able to balance the diversity of its members with the unity of the group. You seem to believe that we all have to be exactly alike, and adhere to the dominant value system regardless of individual rights or expression - not the kind of place that I want to call home.

Leafless, I don't believe your right to freedom of religion trumps gay rights to equality, whether it be for marriage or adoption. And no one is asking you to become homosexual, so it really doesn't impact you in the least. BUT, your persistance in denying gays and lesbians equal rights does do them harm, for no purpose. Why is it so important to you to marginalize them?