Evening Star

Yeah, I think Mulroney himself actually said something to the effect that the Chretien-era Liberals threw out all their old principles and completed his agenda istead.

RM: I voted NDP and I believe that cybercoma did too. I don't agree with all of Harper's policies but that doesn't mean I think he's the equivalent of a Middle Eastern dictator.

Molly: Tbh a lot of those things are probably pretty close to the political centre, at least by now. Are you looking for a Red Tory-style party concerned with social justice and collective institutions? The NDP is probably as close to that as any party now, although I would maintain reservations about their attitude towards Quebec nationalism and parliamentary institutions. (But is the former that different from Clark's 'community of communities'?) It makes me hate myself a little, but increasingly, when I catch Power and Politics, I find myself agreeing with Liberals more than anyone else. When it comes to the Senate, for example, Martha Hall Findlay's suggestion of a more rigourous nomination process seems so much more sensible than either abolition or some sort of US-style elected Senate.

Both have shown contempt for Parliament. It's possible to oppose Harper's policies and also think that there are appropriate and inappropriate ways to protest them.

Fwiw, I'm one NDP voter who thinks this was a juvenile gesture and an abuse of a page's position. I might be in the minority though, judging by this thread.

Actually, this was exactly the case: http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1002515--page-of-protest-livens-up-throne-speech

That's not the only difference but it's a central one and I think it's typical of the differences between the parties. Maybe you can point me to the parts of the NDP platform (as opposed to a decades-old preamble to the party constitution) that advocate nationalizing the banks or abolishing landlordism...

I'm not sure that swing is as unlikely as you claim it to be. MB, SK, BC, and NS have all elected NDP provincial governments. (In three of them, voters do tend to swing between the NDP and a right-wing party provincially.) It is entirely possible that the NDP could pick up seats there. The NDP lost many Western seats to Reform in the 90s. They picked up a number of Conservative seats in the last election. Seats can swing from one end of the left-right spectrum to the other. I'm not saying any of this guarantees an NDP win. Everything could turn against them. But, as punked said, their chance is as good as anyone's. How many of you predicted an NDP Official Opposition with >100 seats even a month before the election btw?

Red herring? That was one of their central platform planks. The preamble to the party constitution wasn't written by Layton or anything. How well did scaremongering about the Conservatives' hidden agenda work for the Liberals? Most Canadians looked at their actions in government, realized they weren't as extreme as their earlier rhetoric suggested, and moved on. This will also happen when people consider the NDP's actions and actual advocacy as opposed to some dated rhetoric.

Seriously, the idea that a 15% corporate tax is a sensible centre-right policy but a 19% corporate tax is borderline communism seems almost comedic.

RNG and CPCFTW, you are both significantly right of centre. Layton has a long record that one can look at. He has moved the NDP much closer to the centre than they were under Broadbent or McLaughlin. (Look at the 1993 NDP platform for the sake of comparison.) The party's proposals are not radical or "borderline communist", especially for a country that was ruled by Pierre Trudeau for 15 years. Btw, this wasn't the worst recession since the Great Depression in Canada. Even the early-80s and early-90s recessions were worse by a number of indicators, according to some prominent economists. At least from what I've read. (And you can't just exclude Quebec!)

In that case, there's no reason why the NDP can't take over the 'centre-left' role. They've been progressively moving towards the centre for a while. Unlike the Liberals, they actually have a support base among the labour movement, community activists, and the urban poor. They don't have the same baggage in either Quebec (obv) or the West.

OK, that makes sense. I guess that then I see no reason why our politics should tend to vacillate between just the centre party and the right party.

I think you're right. Masse has been an official NDP critic of important ministries since 2004 and has participated in important committees and in the all-party Border Caucus.

Perhaps but it would surprise me. He's been a high-profile, well-respected member of the NDP's shadow cabinet since 2004.

He sweeps Windsor West, getting over 50% of the popular vote. Seems odd to give some total newcomers precedence over him.

"As they are" = the actual reality of the Liberal Party for at least the last five years as opposed to someone's mental ideal of what a centrist party should be. I'm also not necessarily sure that the CPC and NDP are extreme parties.

The Gazette editorial is swaying me on the numbers question, actually.

Anyway, I'm disappointed that Brian Masse isn't on that list. He was an effective Industry critic.

Which pundits have said this? Not only do the Liberals have just under 1/3 as many seats as the NDP but they don't even have a leader yet. They may still have an interim leader for a couple of years. By their own admission, the whole party is trying to figure out what it is they even stand for. Even in the previous Parliament, they were a thoroughly ineffectual Opposition.

Wasn't a simple majority sufficient in the 1980 and 1995 referenda? -- OK, read the article. Layton supports the Clarity Act, which afaik applies to the wording of the referendum question itself. He also supports the idea that a simple majority is enough to decide a referendum. Both are positions I agree with and don't sound that different from the positions of other parties.

And fwiw the Canada Council's annual budget is $190 M (http://www.canadacouncil.ca/aboutus/StratPlan2011-16/of129164316419268225.htm ). CBC/Radio-Canada has an annual budget of $1.7B ( http://www.cbc.radio-canada.ca/media/facts/20100513.shtml ). Ending these programmes altogether won't even balance the books.

It doesn't even make sense. Anyone who's unaware of Canada's world-leading position in popular music can't be taken seriously as a commentator on culture.

The CPC platform was completely ludicrous and I'm surprised so many bought it. IIRC, it promised tax cuts, no cuts to the major social programmes, increased military and law-and-order spending, and balancing the books with unspecified 'efficiencies'.

I could maybe see the Liberals taking some Conservative seats in Ontario next time, making an NDP win possible.