Stoker

Well said 1. Insults 2. Plundered 3. Alienation 4. Blame Would you want to stay in that situation? Now be honest....

I agree with you on this one

Yeah the Unions and Washington Marine Group are tight The fact is, "unionists" can't compete (in terms of cost) with labour costs in a second world nation and that has the government subsidizing the industry.

Keeping the money in the province would be ideal, but I'm against corporate welfare and as playfullfellow has said giving BC shipyards a guarantee on ferry production would and has lead to "stiffle(d) competition and to poor workmanship". The European (and Asian) ones are cheaper, since most European governments {see Izar} subsidize their shipbuilding industry and don't have to deal with as high of labour costs as we do in North America. They do. I've seen it with my own eyes, I've worked in the bloody place and have friends that continue to work( if you call it that) there. Ask any shipyard worker, of any trade and they will tell you that it's feast or famine down there.........what they won't tell you is that they priced themselves out of work. And if it wasn't for BCFC, CCG, DND, and the odd cruise ship (and EI), they would all be in a different trade. Ask yourself what would be better: $ 12-15 hr year round or $ 20-22 hr for a few months of the year?

And a way to stop even longer delays at the boarder crossings?

Why should the City of Vancouver or Victoria have more clout then say Port Hardy or Merrit? Why? Do you think a Province that is not held back by federal government restrictions, couldn't or shouldn't, be aloud to look after their own? How can/could the Senate become effective as a tool to be a true "regional voice and a check on Parliament", if it's not elected by the people it's meant to represent?

Still waiting maplesyrup: Are you of the understanding that the West is now infact losers as opposed to winners?

I guess when you start "losing a debate" MS, you need to start using personal attacks and/or changing the subject to draw away attention from your weak arguments and counter-points.......to each his/her own I guess Now if you wish to carry on with this topic in an adult fashion, please provide a source or something that will prove that the "policies" that you mentioned are also the "policies" of the Conservative party of Canada. I'm waiting.

Ahhhhh No....I'm saying that centralising government will cost us freedoms Centralising government sounds like something the Left would like with their Big Brother mentality. Ahh Cartman did *points finger* Only certain provinces........ Anyways, the solution isn't giving more power to the feds, but let the individuals (in this case provinces) get by on their own merits. If Quebec wants free childcare or Alberta wants private clinics, why should Newfoundlers or British Columbians have to pay for it. Not every Province shares the same ideas and/or morals on different issues, hence, every province should be aloud to do whats best for themselves. It's called accountability. WRT the Senate, again taking away another Check and Balance is not going to do any of us any good. With that said, I'm 100% in favor of having an elected Senate. No, I don't "care one iota about reducing" my personal freedom and the Democratic process. Do you have proof that any of those "policies" that you mentioned are also the "policies" of the Conservative party of Canada? If not, maplesyrup you are inching closer to what some might call Slander.

Well we are at it, lets get rid of parliament also. When you think about it, why do individual Canadians (outside of Ontario) really need a voice in government........ Hell another idea to generate/save revenue for Ottawa could be a 100% tax rate........after all Big brother in Ottawa knows whats best for us all

I agree that yes, a "poor Canadian" is better off in most cases then a "poor whatever"..........but maplesyrup thats not the question that I asked you: -Again- Are you of the understanding that the West is now infact losers as opposed to winners?

So you would be in favour of someone in Ottawa telling a person out west, in say suburban Victoria which days they could water their lawn? Thats the attitude though....things don't go your way, bend over and take it

I tend to agree, but for different reasons.......even though I don't use drugs, I think we don't need the government holding our hands for our entire life. The only exception would be the saftey and education of children. How are you going to treat a nation(s) that supports terrorists as a criminal?

And why is that? To create more bureaucracy?

maplesyrup, to get back on topic, I feel the need to ask you now, are you of the understanding that the West is now infact losers as opposed to winners?

If your worried about those that "whine or complain", instead of abolishing the provinces, let's abolish Canada.

Being content with your surroundings leads to stagnancy then eventually death. As the saying goes, "a rolling stone gathers no moss" and right now the east is our bryophytic plant.

To add to that maplesyrup, I'm gald that it has only taken about two pages for you to realize that we (as in the west) are not "big winners", but infact losers. Quite the turn around I must say.

Yes and it also teachs us that if you are in a no win situation, thus by default always a loser, you had best leave that before mentioned situation instead of being content with the crappy end of the stick.

To add to that, I think it's quite clear that based on the different "voter blocks" in this country and the voters within each of these three regions that vote them in, the case can clearly be made that, for the most part, the West, Ontario and Quebec should be seperate entities amongst themselves.............

You can quite easily base the morals of a region by the way they vote......... Quebec=Bloc Ontario=Liberal West=Conservative The idea of the "people" voting on morals seems to escape the left, which is understandable since the left is acustomed to having their morals based on what the government tells you they should be based on.

Why did you change your post MS to the above from the below? ??? My question still stands though, whats "dumb" about voting along the lines of your morals? I only hope that Paul Martin contiunes that attitude.

And what of the "importance of the portfolios"? Are you saying that Ujjal Dosanjh, Anne McLellan, and Ralph Goodale (to name a few) are going to solve western alienation? If you think they will, please tell how? Whats "dumb" about voting along the lines of your morals?

A very good point, the numbers that is and I agree, but what I'm saying is that as a Westerner from British Columbia, not Alberta, I take this as a slap in the face. To have the ego the size of Paul Martins and to think that 8 people are going to solve western alienation is pure folly. I'd like to add to your comments by posting a link to a commentary on the election by Doug Christie: Western Bloc

Thats a cop-out if I ever heard one.......... What, do you live in a glass house?