joan
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Posts posted by joan
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I believe that for a couintry to be united, the schools should not be balkanized into numerous sub-units for gays, people of color, bestialists, etc. Segregation is in general a bad thing, and should be practiced to the bare minimum the Charter permits.
This is not segregation. We have no segregated schools that students are forced to attend against their will.
This is freedom of choice, providing alternatives.
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You can read into it what you want. My point was that this doesn't just happen in cases where police officers are charged, it happens quite often in other cases as well. Our legal system has become so cumbersome that is doesn't seem able to do much of anything in less than a year.
Sorry Wilbur ... I don't agree. I think it is selectively applied to cops.
They just don't think they should have to answer to the public and I think that stinks.
Clearly the prosecution is in collusion on this, paying off favours to cops no doubt.
Why should the cops not be accountable for crimes?
Why do they so strenuously avoid civilian oversight?
What are they hiding?
There is something very wrong in our policing system, imo.
This is sick.
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If you check you will find it happens quite often in our legal system, rarely in cases where police officers are the ones charged. Justice delayed is justice denied. Drives cops nuts as well when they have a case thrown out for the same reason.
Thanks for staying on topic. I am sick and tired of hearing this excuse for cops not going to trial.
These cops in particular ... that drug squad ... has a long reputation for corruption, were in the news a lot when they were charged, but then it just gets buried ... NO TRIAL no nothing.
Disgusting. Why should we trust our police when they are not subject to the same system of justice as us?
I think the cops better get their act together and realize that their credibility is in the toilet and that might just be related to increases in crime.
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Even some black leaders feel that this is the kind of segregation that blacks have sought to end. Link to article (excerpt below, link to article here):
Mother of Jordan Manners argues against Afrocentric schools
Posted: January 30, 2008, 9:21 PM by Barry Hertz
Loreen Small, Jordan Manners’ mother, told the Toronto District School Board on Tuesday night it would be a mistake to open an Afrocentric school. Here is an edited transcript of what she told the board:
‘‘Black school is segregation. Martin Luther King and how many of our fathers fought to come together, so blacks and whites could be together. Sitting at the front of the bus together. This is 2008. Please. What we’re doing is segregating each other.
"It wasn’t just Martin Luther King. It wasn’t him alone. It was white people with him, too, fighting to come together. So let us all come together and be as one. If we need black kids to graduate, let us get the teachers in there, let them learn how to interact with the kids. Learn.
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I had some odd feelings listening to Ms Manners.
I felt she was imploring her people to assimilate to the dominant view so we could 'all be together'.
I do not think the civil rights movement was intended to teach Black people that they must assimilate and go along with the majority. I think it was fought to gain respect for Black people and their own culture.
'Going along with the dominant culture' is not working out well: Black kids are dropping out in dozens from the curriculum and the culture that does not value them.
Alternate programs for kids in danger of dropping out are common. This is just another one designed to address specific needs identified by the population at risk.
I hope it works for them.
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Army suicides up 20 percent in 2007, report says
DELETED by moderator
http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/01/31/army....f=ib_topstories
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... when other cops or the Prosecution routinely delay submission of papers so that officers charged for corruption routinely get off!!???!!!
The other cops, prosecutors and judges are all suspect in this corruption of justice, imo. :angry:
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Sure it matters, WB. In the interest of fairness all the evidence must be presented. The Crown has a case to make. Making statements before the trials begins doesn't mean that they have the goods necessary to ensure conviction. And I suspect that once all the evidence does come out a trial, there will be a much more balnced view of exactly what happened.
Including photos of the 15 year old's throat with abrasions on his adam's apple indicating application of considerable force against his windpipe.
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It was in the post 3 or 4 above from the newspaper ....
This is only the prosecutor's version.
Where is the rest?
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He was an OLD MAN! They were teenagers!
What glory! What honour!
I'm surprised those young lads didn't feel the need to use a howitzer to defend themselves from the old geezer...
Every time we hear of this sort of thuggery we get a steaming load of historical revisionism about how it didn't really happen, or they were forced into it, or an old man was actually a Kung Fu ninja warrior armed with razor sharp shiraken, or the situation was a faked putup by white racists trying to make natives look bad or yadda, yadda, yadda...
Goebbels would be proud...
yadda yadda yadda is right at least!
52 ... and he might not be happy to be called a 'geezer'
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I disagree, joan. That was an excuse used at Nuremberg too, but the court found that soldiers following orders must question those orders when it means the killing of innocent people. And until these police and soldiers have enough of a conscience to question before they act, they are equally responsible. Just as in the case in the death Shidane Arone, soldiers following orders does not make it right.
BTW I heard today that Larry Hay the former Police Chief of Tyendinaga was officially fired today. If you remember he was the one that was quoted by Loyalist College newspaper as having said the OPP and RCMP are racist organizations. When I last spoke with Mr. Hay he was expecting this action. Certainly it will bolster his claims of wrongful dismissal against the OPP when it goes to court later this year. I suspect that we will see a settlement in the millions. That would be expected from Fantino, rather than admitting that in fact they are a racist organization. Here is one example where a commanding officer refused to follow orders because they were racially motivated. It is also expected that Fantino will be handed his walking papers pretty soon....or so says the little mouse.....
Wow! Thanks for the update. I am glad he is suing. This will be interesting, since Justice Linden said the same thing about the OPP in the Ipperwash Report.
Hay was basically repeating what the report said, and related it to his own experience in the OPP and RCMP.
About questioning orders ... absolutely, you're right. They are responsible for such actions for sure, although the presence of threat has to be considered too.
And that is why I am glad the OPP made a decision to keep things clear for themselves and uphold their Oath, regardless of political pressures. Unfortunately, the RCMP's only Oath is to follow orders and instructions.
However, our government needs to be held accountable for exercising political pressures on police, and for misleading all of us about the law too.
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Actually two of the three have been to court. Apparently your version is still a fabrication. It was actually the 15 year old threatening with death. Sorry, no video either.
P.S. Jennie also said "It's just a friggen flag!" How strange.
Only for bail, prelim, no evidence, no trial yet.
It's a commonly used expression in some circles, eh?
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Of course you did.
And have they submitted themselves as a witness? It will be interesting to see if the witness is charged with perjury once all the facts are in court.
I was told there is some video, outside the house, of the builders waiting at their vehicles.
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Anyone want to take a stab at where we heard this bogus line before? The one where a few innocents young men wer jumped by a lone property owner so they had to defend themselves by countering his head blows with their boots and a two by four?
I believe all suspects have been charged.
I heard it from a person who was watching.
It will be interesting to see if the builder is charged once all the facts are in court.
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Cripes, you people who are still whining about bilingualism are going to have to drag yourself out of the 1950's sometime!
Canada's edge in the new economy will be having employees who can do business in many languages. It's just simple economics, and French is a very useful employment skill, as are the many other mother tongues of Canadians.
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Being jumped and clubbed on your property apparently is nothing to complain about.
Not if you tried to kill a fifteen year old first! That is the other side of the story not told to the media, because they didn't ask. The 15 year old had abrasions on his adams apple. His windpipe was nearly crushed. The builder got a club from his truck and laid in wait for the boys, and attacked them because they were going to hang a flag on his house, despite the fact that the OPP had ordered the builders off the site hours before. Really mature!
So if you were 18 and your 15 year old brother was being threatened with death, would you grab a club and knock the guy off him? I think so. EVERYONE would. It's just a friggen flag!
Interesting that the builder's brother has never said what he saw, I suspect because what he saw was his older brother attack and nearly kill a 15 year old kid for trying to hang a flag.
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Complicit is not the same as committing murder. Clayton Matchee was a killer, a murderer, will you try to deny that now? Of course you will, you were actually there when it went down, right?
As for bayonets, it is not policy to use bayonets, way too inneficient, just because one commander gave the order does not make it policy, are you unaware of that? That is if your cherry picked sources are to be believed. Of course you can now claim that no journalist has ever slanted a report in order to favour a cause they support.
As for the "peacefull" natives, well all the footage of them slinging rocks, bottles and whatever else they could get their hands on must have been faked, just like the lunar landings, right?
Well when it comes to bull I'll defer to your superior knowledge and skill, it appears from what you post that you are a grand master of the technique.
Hmmm, what a crock of sh*t that statement is. The truth of the matter is that the vast majority of serving Canadians are very fine people. It appears you are not fit to stand within their shadow, never mind consider your self their equal. Why do you revert to false blanket statements that villify entire groups or races? I've mentioned before that your overt racism is a little disturbing. It appears you know no bounds when it comes to racist statements, even going so far as to fabricate reality in order to support your irrational prejudices. You really should try to get that under control.
Among law enforcers. Oka is known as the pivotal time when they found out that "The Indians would shoot back." It was a huge wakeup call for governments that their plundering of native land was going to be challenged, and it has been challenged ever since.
I expect the army was under orders not to shoot, so they used bayonets instead, so as not to frighten the neighbours, I suppose. But now they have tasers so they can shoot as many as they want, apparently, and as many times. One teenager was recently tasered 3 times to take him down, and three more times when he was on the ground, which was totally out of line. The jolt of electricity makes a person's body jump, and watching the vid, it seemed to me that the final tasers were directed at him because his body was moving from the jolts. 6 times? The cops still manage to get their 'jollies'.
HOWEVER, I want to go on record here to say clearly: The systemic racism and misplaced aggression against Indigenous People among our cops and soldiers is only symptom of the systemic racism and aggression of our governments. I do not fault the troops nor the cops on the line, but the attitudes and directions that come from government. At both Oka and Ipperwash, politicians were up to their eyeballs in giving 'direction' to the cops. Local politicians were in it at Caledonia too, prior to April 20, 2006 and the raid on that day was politically motivated too, effectively ordering OPP officers to violate their Oath of Office (Loyalty to the Queen, uphold the Constitution).
I am very proud of the way the OPP have taken back control from the politicians and now uphold Constitutional rights of all involved, and respect the Queen's treaties. This is the law.
Canada's position right now is that "existing Aboriginal and Treaty rights" under Canada's Constitution could bankrupt the country and leave us with no land mass of our own, and thus no country. This is the real issue for the politicians ... that and the fact that they can hardly wage an all out war of aggression against them as still happens in some countries. Lily white Canada would not want to be seen doing that!
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This only emphasizes the point that the aboriginals have made a mistake by getting mad at the Caledonia townsfolk and using them as cannon fodder in their dispute with the government, idiot politicians and lawyers. There was little to win by such a tactic and a lot was lost.
The Six Nations dispute is only going to fester as it goes on. I don't expect Dalton will do anything significant for the townsfolk or come to any lasting resolution with SN. It may become a big issue next election, depending on what stand the opposition Tories take. Harper is in no hurry. Why should he help get Dalton off the hook, when Dalton has been so negative towards Harper and his party? No, he's going to let Dalton squirm on the hook till the cows come home.
Meanwhile, most of the folks taking the aboriginal side on this board strike me as very naive. They seem to take it as a fact there is some "Cosmic Policeman" who would force Canadian governments to obey the (aboriginal!) interpretation of Law. In reality there is nothing to force governments to obey their own laws.
These aboriginal spokespeople posters have proven this with their own words, when they say that Canadian governments have broken their own laws. Moreover, the townsfolk of Caledonia have learned this, to their sorrow, when an OPP dispatcher tells a scared housewife "Don't call us anymore! We can do nothing for you!"
After these examples, how on earth can they expect that if they demanded the moon Canadian governments would just say, "OOPS! Sorry! Quite right! Just let us get our wallets out!"?
It won't happen. If the natives decide then to get violent they will find that while the Canadian military is no longer much by world standards it is more than enough to deal with Six Nations. And Six Nations has burned much of their support in the mainstream community.
It's the difference between being anal-retentive and realistic. When someone shouts "You have to do this! It's in the rules!", usually they end up being mocked and ignored.
Remember the peasant Arthur met in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail"? When he asks for directions and the peasant gives him a long political "loony left" diatribe, until Arthur finally shoves him out of the way and just leaves him?
I wish I could remember the peasant character's name. It might be a useful suggestion for a new member alias for some on this board who keep continually changing theirs...
blah blah blah poor me the big 'Indian' SCARED me (18 months ago) ! boo hoo hoo !
There is a small group of people from Caledonia who carry on like this all the time. They care nothing for the legalities of the issue, who is right or wrong doesn't matter to them. It is just the most excitement they have ever had and they keep trying to get back those glory days of 18 months ago when they had something to complain about (though nowhere NEAR what Six Nations has to complain about). However, their tales of misery are getting old and stale and boring now but they continue to repeat them hoping for more excitement.
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Most of the "problems" that you people are complaining about are the result of the actions of Joseph Brant, not the Canadian government. If the Canadian government didn't step in and stop land speculation and force the Six Nations to start conducting land transactions legally, there would be no reserve at all.
You don't 't know that. In fact, you openly admit that your don't know or care about the history at all.
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The thing is land deeds were issued. This means payment for parcels of land was made from settler to the goverment, which was acting on behalf of the Six Nations as you note. This is why the Six Nations could claim monetary damages against the government, but cannot claim the land. For example:
That reflects the agreement. However, the government negotiators have not even claimed that any payments were made.
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Bankrupt Canada? In what court?
Any government that caved to such ridiculous demands would be hooted out of office by Canadian citizens. The natives in effect would be expecting such a government to commit political suicide.
Of a certainty the natives would never get such judgments or Canada would simply refuse to pay! Certainly, all Indian Act payments would be considered in any theoretical judgement.
In the Supreme Court of Canada.
Get familiar with the laws, eh?
Some governments have to follow them too!
And no bingo, we can't change them.
Point being: What Canada owes only to Six Nations could bankrupt the country.
Final point: The more Canada jerks them around, the more expensive the settlement gets.
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Interesting backtracking going on here!
"You are lying. It didn't happen. We don't use bayonets."
(Yes it did)
"Well then she must have been in the wrong place."
"She shouldn't have been carrying her infant brother."
Ya right, and that is why she was bayoneted, to teach her a lesson for carrying her infant brother. Sure. yay soldier!"
I am curious what other flimsy excuses people can come up with.
Fact is ... our governments have been only too willing to use brutal force against elders, women and children if they are Indigenous people and they dare to challenge Canada's oppression and theft and fraud. It is our governments who order force, our governments who are desperately trying to cover their criminal tracks.
AND despite your lies and made up excuses, YOU ALL KNOW IT'S TRUE!
You also know that they can bankrupt us, and obviously we are all concerned about that.
However, the appropriate way to deal with it is to be truthful and humble.
But our governments choose to continue their arrogant and criminal charade.
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We should just settle the grievances in a reasonable form and manner, once this is done it should be a case of you're on your own.
Well, if you were Prime Minister and would do this, Angus, we wouldn't have a problem!
However, our governments do not negotiate in good faith. Instead, they lie, cheat and steal.
That IS the problem, and always has been. The government insists on making Indigenous People dependent on government funds and refuses to pay them what is owed in land and money.
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In response to the question posed by the thread title.
When is a gang of thugs extorting money from citizens ever a positive step forward?
When they are acting to correct 200 years of Canadian government injustice, theft and fraud.
It is no more extortion than the billions in development fees the municipalities fraudulently collect each year on land for which they have no jurisdiction.
Think about it: Haldimand County collected millions for development on land THEY KNEW WAS NOT THEIRS, FOR DECADES!
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Me too.
Citation please
http://www.rrj.ca/issue/1991/summer/125/
This incident erupted less than 24 hours after the retreat-on orders from the: army-of a couple of dozen reporters, photographers and camera operators to a vantage point behind a shoulder-high wall of sandbags half a kilometre from the firing line. Lieutenant-Colonel Pierre Daigle explained that journalists "were simply getting in the way." But the journalists behind the wire stayed there in defiance both of the army and the example set by their more compliant colleagues. They were determined to provide an independent version of events in the Mohawk camp. Without them, as it turns out, the Canadian public would never have known what really happened the night the Oka standoff nearly became a shooting war-the time that came to be called the Night of the Bayonets.
Why Is Canada So Poor?
in Federal Politics in Canada
Posted
Canadians are not poor, but extravagant and conspicuous wealth is not generally valued here, thank goodness.
Perhaps there are more rich Americans, but there are also more poor ones and the poor ones are poorer than here and many without medical care, though more money per capita is spent on health care there than here. That is because our government health care system has 'economies of size' and spends far less on administration than the many private plans in the states.