Wild Bill

Well, perhaps personal values can skew one's perspective. If you're looking for judges who agree with your own values then it becomes a question of partisanship. If you're a populist democrat then it's a completely different situation. Do the Supreme Court judges reflect the popular will of the people? These are very different parameters. We really have to nail this down before we can properly chew it over...

Same old, same old, eh Angus? It doesn't matter what a Six Nations spokesman thinks of McHale. It matters what the VOTERS of Caledonia think of him! We shall see how well he does. Independents generally have a rough go getting elected but when Liberals are down so far, the NDP in Ontario have Bob Rae's legacy around their neck and the incumbent Tory Diane Findley hasn't been even seen much since the protests started, McHale might just pull it off! It would be a very strong message sent to Harper and McGuinty, that's for sure!

And how did we lose the Neutrals?

"Intelligence is a constant divided by the number of people in the group." I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the baseline stupidity level to improve. Once the typical grade school graduate could read Latin, sheet music and had a reasonable grasp of practical mathematics. Now he has unfounded opinions as to who will be the new addition to the Pussy Cat Dolls. Oh well, if my granny had wheels she wouldn't bump her ass when she hopped... We have to deal with the world as it is if we have any chance of changing it.

First he might learn English!

You may be right. I'm still having trouble clearly reading this one. Not everything is showing and there are too many variables. Like those math problems we used to get in school, where it seemed you had 3 variables but 4 unknowns! Destroy the Liberals? Somehow, I doubt it. I remember when Mulroney swept in with the two greatest majorities ever. Yet at the end of his term the Liberals came back and the Tories were reduced to TWO seats! No, Dion may go down in flames but his party could rise like a phoenix next election. It all depends on who's running the show at the time. They could have some changes, like a merger with the Greens. Of course, at present the Greens are nowhere near as powerful as Reform/Allliance was at the time of their merger with the PC's but there's a trend there worth following. Besides, the writ hasn't even been dropped! Lots of time for one leader or the other to blow it with a major gaffe! Since Mulroney's time we have seen some wild swings in seats, both provincially and federally. We Canadians seem to be yoyoing from one choice to another. This implies to me that NONE of the parties are offering a clear choice to voters! People are tossing one choice out but they are not madly in love with the alternatives. I suspect this might have something to do with the "adman" approach of the party handlers. Try to stay in the middle. Don't offend any one group. Go for the common denominator. Be beige, beige and beige in your colours with once in a while showing a quick flash of tan to make the claim you're actually unique! Do this long enough and people start to feel that they don't HAVE much in the way of real choices! So they lose respect for a party's brand. It's normal for older voters to gain a little cynicism and be more realistic about political choices but perhaps it's happening at an earlier and earlier age. This may well prove to be a positive thing, unless you belong to one of the parties that gets clobbered, of course! Still, politicians grow the toughest hides of us all. It's Darwinian. If they want to survive they will have to change in a fashion that will please more voters. Sometimes we forget that the parties are only our representatives. It doesn't matter what happens to them. It only matters what happens to US! The parties are there to serve the people, not the people to serve the parties. The past few decades have shown the greatest social and technical changes in man's history. So many things that were around for eons are no more. Either they morphed into something unrecognizable today or they simply totally disappeared. Part of the price for more equal rights has been the membership of some churches, churches that have been around for centuries. It may seem a shame but if an institution doesn't evolve with the people then Darwin rules, if you'll pardon the mixed metaphor! So why should a political party or structure be immune to the need to change? The NDP finally shows some signs of evolving. Their own Laxer report in the 80's warned them they were becoming irrelevant dinosaurs. They refused to listen and look what the next few decades brought them! Perhaps if they change some more they would be pleasantly surprised. Sometimes when I look at the Liberals I see myself in the 70's, full of a lot of idealism and "hippy" ideas that were often impractical or even unworkable. Big heart but no life experience. As a people we changed but the Liberals in some ways stayed in a time warp. Perhaps now they're paying the price for all those years of having a split opposition and an easy time staying in power. It meant that they didn't really have to change with the people. Darwin showed how a species with no need to change simply doesn't, except for the odd mutation every few hundred or thousand years. The Liberals have simply had a quick change in their environment that they didn't see coming. So save your tears! It's not important what name is in power, only how that name serves Canada and its people! "Ask not what you can do for your party! Ask what your party can do for the people!" I have to stop before I start singing "The sun will come out tomorrow, tomorrow!"

Jdobbin, if I ever forget my manners again and accuse you of a lack of objectivity, would you please remind me of your post? To be able to see a trend so clearly that goes against your own preferences adds great value to your observations on this board. There are a few others who would do well to follow your example.

Pure revisionist drivel! I think I'll scroll back to the start of these threads. I think you may have contradicted your own self with this particular fairy tale of history! You are so predictable. You'd paint Charles Manson or Richard Ing as lambs if they were native, I swear! It's like pushing a button. Natives are always blameless. Six Nations did everything right and nice. Everyone else is evil and wrong. It's like a player piano. Just hit the button. I'm hitting the ignore button.

Pure crap! You either never followed the history or you prefer to revise it! This was not Oka and it was not Ipperwash. You really should look at every situation by its own merits and not lump them all together. The builder spent a few years gathering all the pertinent permits and papers from whichever levels of government were involved. The Six Nations council was informed, as is mandatory in such matters. No one complained, no one objected, no one cared on the Six Nation side. Everything was done perfectly legally and in the open on the Caledonia municipal government side. When the Douglas Creek Estate homes were nearing completion suddenly one morning a group of young native protesters, some of whom appeared to be "foreigners" to the town and area, showed up and began an occupation protest. Later the OPP came to evict them and botched it! A large number of natives came and joined the protest. So the builder had done his research! If Six Nations had a beef they had YEARS to lodge their complaint! This was not a long standing land claim going back to Pocahontas' time. That history was dreamed up by those sympathetic to the protesters AFTER the fact! Six Nations could have lodged a protest before the first shovel ever went into the ground at the Douglas Creek Estates. The fact that they waited until the project was nearing completion is telling in itself. Besides, I say again that the claims are irrelevant. The tactics are unforgiveable! You don't end racism by allowing victims to take free shots at oppressing OTHER innocents! You just perpetuate the problem. For the natives to target the townsfolk just because they are white and were handy is in itself racism on the part of the natives! No one is responsible for another's actions just because they share the same skin colour! The natives should have specifically targeted Ottawa and Queens Park. They're the ones always bleating that the feds should be dealing with them as equals, after all. They took a cheap shot at their neighbours and if they don't understand why their neighbours now feel negatively towards them then they are living in la la land!

Same old, same old. Somebody screaming for "Action! I want something done!" They never say "effective action". That is just taken for granted. So everybody is so proud that they are on the "right side" but nothing that WORKS ever happens! In fact, usually the loudest voices demanding "Action" are the same voices against anything that actually might work!

Same old, same old. How could a Caledonian have gotten behind the protest lines to torch the transformer? I wasn't aware there were a lot of retired ninjas in that town. What would be the motive? Deprive a town of electricity for a weekend just to frame the natives? Bit of a stretch... Yeah, I know. If I disagree I must be a racist. Anyone who disagrees is a racist. Yet natives can attack the townsfolk because they are white and must bear the blame and endure the revenge for actions of people dead and gone who also were likely white, or at least non-native. Who's the racist? Anyhow, you don't have to convince ME. When I see a parade down the main street in Caledonia with YOU on the head float I might believe you. I've been there and have friends and acquaintances there who keep me informed. Frankly, you sound like you're trying to convince the rest of Canada that the situation is different than those who live there well know. Just a propaganda tactic, I guess. What I do know is that people respond as to how they have been treated. The natives have made that the excuse for their actions. Perhaps the townspeople will decide to do the same. Considering the speed at which a townsfolk blockade was formed to protest that of the natives, the citizens would seem to be highly motivated. Then again, the fact that they would take exception to another blockade, this one not even as a result of anything they had done but rather in opposition to actions IN A DIFFERENT CITY I guess is proof that they must all be racists. Talk about the ultimate in ad hominem arguments!

What keeps being ignored by those who champion Six Nations is that most of the opposition to their position comes not from their goals but their tactics. In fact, I would expect that at least among the townsfolk of Caledonia, they Have burned their bridges and salted the earth as far as any support for their land claims. If the natives had launched their protests at Queens Park or Ottawa they might have had a different reaction. Likely we would have seen many more non-natives cheering them on! They chose not to. They attacked the citizens of Caledonia, their neighbours for generations. They blocked an important road, they tore down a transmission line tower, and although it can't be proven, a transformer behind their protest lines was destroyed, plunging the town into blackness for a weekend. The natives claim there is no proof they did this but when the transformer was behind their protest line, unreachable by anyone BUT protesters and given that no one else would have had the opportunity or the motive this is a specious argument only respected by anal-retentive lawyers. The Caledonia folks are clearly fed up. While they are obviously upset with their own politicians it would be a huge mistake for Six Nations to believe that there is no resentment against THEM! The resentment is huge and grows more every day. Even if the claims were settled tomorrow that resentment will not abate for a long, long time. In effect, the natives punched Caledonia in the face and then excused themselves by saying "Sure I hit you but don't get mad at us! Your government MADE us hit you! You should now join with us!" It's a lame ass excuse that won't fly. In my own heart I grew up sympathizing for native claims. I still do...but not for Six Nations. They chose to make their neighbours cannon fodder in their fight with the provincial and federal governments. Because of these actions I no longer have any respect for their position at all. Arguments about the legitimacy of their land claims are just obfuscation about their lack of honour with their tactics, as far as I'm concerned.

Haven't you heard, Angus? The ENTIRE country is their land! So they can occupy ANY of it, ANYWHERE! You can believe me, because I'm always right and I always tell the truth!

I'm not adverse to the idea of adding some more proportional representation, as long as politicians don't get to pick any extra MP's. I only feel comfortable with electing MPs directly by the people. That was the problem with the idea here in Ontario last provincial election. The last thing anybody wanted was for politicians to appoint themselves!

Did it not say that Kyoto reductions could make up only 10% of the total an emitter had to reduce? Looks like it also said the feds will decide if you made real or imaginary domestic reductions. This is a bit of a difference from the Liberal plan.

That's your opinion. Others DO consider our "first past the post" system to be democratic. There are many flavours of representative democracy. Who decided YOURS was the ONLY one?

I'm afraid you are NOT speaking for the majority of Canadians! Canada has never been a totally pacifistic country. We have never been an imperialist or aggressor nation but that's not the same thing. We have always been prepared to use military force if necessary for those values we believe in, such as with two World Wars and a number of UN engagements and such since. To try to change history and our ability to defend that which we hold dear is a foolish idea, if not a suicidal one. The world still has some dangers in it. Pacifism doesn't work if only one side holds to it. Besides, to close the museum would be a mindboggling example of disrespect to those Canadians who gave their lives so that we could even discuss such an idea.

"... totally different from the NDP who champion individual civil liberties." That hasn't been my observation. From what I've seen they have a Limbaugh definition of civil liberties: everyone has the freedom to agree with them!

Wow! I thought my posts were long! Anyhow, I believe this is known as picking apart someone's model instead of his point.

Well, they were at it again this Labour Day weekend! http://www.thespec.com/article/427995 This link is to a day old newspaper article. Tomorrow (Sept 03) you can read today's wrapup. To put things into chronological perspective, some months ago the city of Brantford, which is adjacent to Caledonia, began to see more native protests blocking construction projects. The last thing Brantford wanted was to find themselves in the same situation as Caledonia so they consulted their lawyers and had injunctions issued that clearly banned protests from blocking duly authorized construction. The paperwork also called on the police and the OPP to enforce the injunctions, if necessary. They may not have been confident that the OPP and the McGuinty government would actually do their jobs but it appeared they wanted to at least have all the legal stuff clearly done so that the cops and Dalton could not dodge a situation with legal loopholes. Brantford has suffered from a huge loss in manufacturing jobs over the years and has worked very hard to attract new business and industry. The last thing they wanted was to have native protests make the city look like a negative for investment for the next few generations, as has happened in Caledonia. This weekend some natives moved in protest onto a large development construction site. The authorities removed them and took 3 natives into custody, laying charges against them for violating the court orders against interfering with construction. The next day some 60 natives closed Argyle street, a main artery in Caledonia, in a sympathy protest for the 3 arrested in Brantford. The townsfolk in Caledonia had enough. Now they were being beaten up with another road blockage for something that happened IN ANOTHER CITY! So apparently the citizens set up a blockade a hundred yards or so from the native blockade! They decided to block the road in protest of the natives blocking the road! Some native leaders came out and helped police disperse the protesters, telling everyone that they were just young kids who were not authorized by Six Nations and that Six Nations agreed that they should not be there. The native blockade was removed. However, the townsfolk refused to take down their barricades! Some comments were made that it seemed odd that Six Nations had made no effort to remove the "unauthorized" protest blockade until things had escalated. Nor had the police seemed in any hurry to move them out. So the city folk decided to stick to their blockade until 6:00 pm or so before opening the road and clearing out. The only report of charges were against one young Caledonia citizen who was charged for allegedly ripping a Native flag from a car antenna. Am I the only one who thinks it odd that these young natives would choose to once again attack the folks of Caledonia, over an incident that happened in Brantford? Why didn't they block a road into Brantford? Obviously, since I find this confusing I must just be a racist, I guess.

Exactly! It doesn't matter a whit what we political junkies think here on this forum. It only matters what the entire electorate thinks and in what percentages.

Isn't this gentleman a rather biased source? After all, he's just a puppet with a Baryshnikov or whatever pointed at his head.

Maurice Strong is the reason that since Petro Canada was founded I have refused to buy a drop of gas from them! Once in northern Ontario I was running on fumes and when I reached a gas station it turned out to be a Petro Canada one. I bought $2 worth, just enough to reach another station. The man was and is a socialist con artist hypocrite. There was never a drop of Canadian oil in Petro Canada gas. It all came from Venezuela and Libya. There are lots more examples from his checkered history.

Actually, in the mainstream he is famous for being on the investigative team for the Challenger disaster. While all the other talking heads around the table were concocting all kinds of theories he calming took a small ring out of his coat made of the same material as the o-rings that failed in the booster. He dunked it in his water glass, full of ice water from a pitcher on the table. After he had judged it cold enough, he took it out of the water and while everyone else was babbling away he whacked it on the table. The cold o-ring shattered into a zillion pieces! All the others were instantly quiet. Dyson had just demonstrated the actual cause. Of course, not specifically having a degree in climate change theory would mean that his knowledge and intelligence would be totally inapplicable, as I'm sure you're about to tell me...

Dinosaurs never learned how to IMPORT their food from greener areas if it didn't grow well at home! I will agree that many GC supporters might become extinct. I've seen many that couldn't put a new plug on a lamp! The type that thinks that wood comes from Home Depot and bread from variety stores. The type that would think to switch all our cars and transport trucks over to electricity and then be totally surprised that we didn't have enough supply. I wish someone could commission a poll to find out how many GC supporters have a good understanding of practical sciences based on cause and effect. The biggest "green" advocate I ever knew became a vegetarian and six months later was in the hospital, after subsisting on a diet of nothing but french fries and granola. From what I've seen over the years, he's a typical example.