kuzadd

re: OBL tapes 1. none of the tapes were independently verified, why? If they were verified and found to be real, that would only benefit further the US admin. Why doesn't the US admin. have them verified to bolster there case ,then? OBVIOUSLY, if they were found to be not authentic, they would work to the detriment of the US administration, hence, no independent verifciation.! 2.Kimmy assumes that Aljazeera playing them gives them some sort of validity, another false assumption. it gives them validity only in the mind of someone who is not thinking merely reacting. Kimmy" You assume playing the tapes would have been highly controversial, I doubt it, highly. What's interesting is that you think that. The stakes for Aljazeera, were the same as for any other media outlet, run with the scoop before someone else does. I cannot understand why you think a business, in the business to make money , through higher ratings and grabbing bigger bucks for advertising, I don't understand why you think otherwise.Media priorities, a scoop, higher ratings and more profits. Aljazeera is a business. It's not a charity. kimmy: really, kimmy, then how do we REALLY know that anyone is actually delivering tapes for AlQuaeda? WE don't! Another assumption! yet, there is not one iota of evidence to support that tape as credible, 1.no independent verification, which as stated would have only bolstered the US's claims, yet, it did not happen. 2.who the heck knows who delivers or mails the tapes? it could have came straight from Rendon group. 3.The timing of it which may have aided the Bush re-election campaign, also makes it suspect. here's where we get into another half-baked claim by kimmy and a dam funny one to boot! You are empowering OBL alot! Also demonstrating an irrationality based in fear, I am assuming. BushCheney is correct, do you really think that, OBL needs Bush, as president, to inflame the Muslim world, that is hilarious! US foreign policy, through the years has done a good job of that irregardless of who has been President! US foreign policy would have continued on, inflaming Arabs, even if Kerry had been president! US presidents may change, foreign policy stays on track! Therefore it is more credible to say the release of the tapes benefited Bush, in his push for re-election, by pushing the fear button amongst the populace. it just might have given Bush the edge despite BC's claims as Bush plays the 9/11 card quit alot, and still does. In summary unless any of the tapes were independently verified which would have only bolstered the US claims,YET, never happened. (think about that Kimmy) They are totally non-credible as evidence of anything.! The tapes being "authenticated' by the very administration that stood to benefit from them, (BUT, not independently) wether it was to justify wars , or win elections, should raise enough suspicions in a rational thinker to discard them as anything but, credible. The one thing they serve very well as, is war-time propaganda! As propaganda they serve to bolster the official 9/11 story which also benefits the US again, in it's foreign policy aspirations. BC is correct in that no one KNOWS for certain wether he is dead, or not. I still sit firmly in the he is dead camp. I also do not deem credible the nonsense wrt the Taliban aiding OBL either, they simply were not that kind of regime. More along the lines of we're the boss and you will not usurp us at all! They would have had very little tolerance of OBL, as he could have challenged there authority. Much like Saddam and Alquaeda, no way, no how!

Agreed, in fact, how could anyone, even a person of faith beleive, that God created man in his own image, and that we are all God;s children and then "God: an omnipotent, all-knowing being, would pick his "favourites". isn't he smart enough to know that is how sibling rivalry is created. There is no such thing as "chosen People" that is just religious quackery. God, I had to get that brainwashing out of my head after years of catholic school, cause only Catholics are the "true christians" Even the Pope recently told the world that! sheesh!

here's a recent article re: wal-mart rather a lengthy read. http://www.thestar.com/article/245470 Woes mount for Wal-Mart With growth, stock price and profits down, the retail giant once thought to be invincible finds itself on shaky ground re: worker abuses a good read in it's entirety.

wrt: osama tapes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Videos_of_Osa...mber_16.2C_2001 September 16, 2001 On September 16, 2001, Osama bin Laden issued the following statement via al Jazeera in reference to the 9/11 attacks: "I stress that I have not carried out this act, which appears to have been carried out by individuals with their own motivation." [1] Then on Sept 28th/01 another denial. http://www.justresponse.net/Bin_Laden1.html Interestingly, the believers of the 'official conspiracy" theory, when faced with these denial announcements of OBL's will say, well how did Aljazeera get this, did it come anonymously? If the denials came anonymously, as did the confession, why say one is true and one isn't? Why not just discount them all?as they should be, As non-credible. Interestingly the one tape was 'found' by the US army, yah, the 'found' a confession tape, I think it was 'fatty binladen' lol!!!!!

Al Jazeera , and I knew why you used it as you assumed it would be more credible as opposed to US media. It's still bogus. It's irrelevant who plays the tape, the only relevant point is wether the tape is authentic or not. AlJazeera may have assumed it was credible, but that still didn't necessarily make it so. Did Aljazeera have it authenticated or did they take the word of someone? If so who? The US intelligence authentication process? Did they have it independently authenticated? How did Aljazeera get the tape? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6363306/#storyContinued “We received it in Pakistan. ... Somebody dropped it yesterday at the gate,” Zaidan told The Associated Press. “The guard brought it to me along with other mail. It was in an envelope, I opened it and it was a big scoop.” Zaidan said he immediately transmitted the tape to Al-Jazeera’s headquarters in the Persian Gulf nation of Qatar." Who dropped the tape off? "Someone" was that "someone" verified? That someone could have been, anyone, who was it? of course it was a scoop, and Al Jazeera ran with it, what media wouldn't, it's totally sensational! Ups the ratings! Ensuring higher rates for advertising. You see Aljazeera regardless of where it is based, is there to make money, same as any western media outlet. It's interesting that you would think it would work any other way? it still doesn't make the tape authentic, does it Kimmy? no, it doesn't. that said: I notice as always Kimmy you, resort to smear, and that shows , as always "kimmy's weakness" I am sorry , I missed the "half-baked conspiracy website" that kimmy was referring to ? In which post of MINE was that? It was in NONE, yet, you fall into the tactic of name calling and demonization. When I see that, I see, weakness. Since that is exactly what that indicates.

gonna include an opinion piece wrt this story http://www.antiwar.com/roberts/?articleid=11422 Paul Craig Roberts it isn't iran he is referring to either

http://russiatoday.ru/news/news/11776

So, in summary kimmy's "appeal to authority" is all it takes. The Bush regime say's the tapes are real, and "authenticates" them , whatever that exactly means. Therefore they are real, because the Bush regime say's so, and they were "authenticated" by underlings of the Bush regime. Well that's enough for me, I am a convert! NOT! lol! OBL is dead, if he isn't he is alive, with the blessings and knowledge of the US.

"you were the one who brought it up" "Certain types of people like to talk about the "fake Osama!" video." Therefore you qualify! Since you CHOOSE to discuss it. Lost on you though, isn't it? actually, I don't see the confession tapes as a red herring, why would you.? The confession to a crime, along with substantiating evidence, hmmm, sounds like a conviction to me. Confessions are useful for convictions in numerous courts, particularly if they can be bolstered, which according to the official story, along with the confession tapes, one would think that would be enough for the FBI, to have enough evidence, to put Osama's crime of 9/11 on the most wanted list. Oh yes there is a contradiction, read what I said, not what you think is there, which is a huge problem, IMO. I said "wrt the 2001 tape which was told to us was the first admission by OBL of a connection to 9/11" though he did not name specifics, he certainly gave away enough to make the point did he not? Certainly enough for the Bush regime to promote it as such, and people to believe it as such. So again, which was the first admission tape kimmy? 01 or 04?? specific or vague, they both made the connections. Who verified the tapes? The people who gave us the cooked intel kimmy? were the tapes independently verified? "It was good enough for AlJazeera," Is a red herring kimmy,though I prefer bunch of baloney! You should know better, then that. The BS about wmd's was good enough for the mainstream media, and where did that get anyone. lol!

remember, the weak, smear which is a summary in 3 words, of your post. Answer the questions I posed,please and thanks? demonstrate logic, for me. You know actual credible imput? or continue to live by the 3 words, as you so choose to do, regularily. oh and duly noted the irony in your " patrolling for trolls" motto.

kimmy: such as yourself? actually speaking for myself of course, I only find it is the people with the iq's of 60 or so that believe, the "official" conspiracy. Anyone with a higher iq and the inclination to think for oneself, question authority, instead of bow to authority and hasn't succumbed to the massive scale of terror propaganda, is asking questions. Gosh Kimmy, why doesn't the FBI want OBL for 9/11, if all his "tapes" are so "credible". They would have the evidence, and yet, the reason he is not wanted for 9/11 is apparently a lack of evidence, despite the tapes. Now what does that tell any thinking person about the tapes? It tell's me the tapes are not credible pieces of evidence. But then I have an above average IQ! re:2004 tape , Kimmy, who verified it? was it done independently? or by the people who brought us the phony Iraq intel? Interesting the 2004 tape according to wiki is the first acknowedgement by OBL of the 9/11 attacks: YET: wrt the 2001 tape which was told to us was the first admission by OBL of a connection to 9/11 ""For those who see this tape, they'll realise that not only is he guilty of incredible murder, he has no conscience and no soul, that he represents the worst of civilisation," said President George W Bush. " http://edition.cnn.com/2001/US/12/14/ret.b...ex.html?related Bush: Tape a 'devastating declaration of guilt' "It is preposterous for anybody to think that this tape is doctored," he said during a brief photo opportunity with the prime minister of Thailand. "That's just a feeble excuse to provide weak support for an incredibly evil man." So which is the first admission Kimmy? which tape is the fake? One? Two? Both? Neither? Oh and one more thing, the timing of the 04 tape was SO perfect for Bush, eh? wiki: "The 2004 tape boosted the popularity of American President George W. Bush. President Bush opened up a six-point lead over his opponent Senator John Kerry in the first opinion poll to include sampling taken after the videotape was broadcast." How lucky for Bush, timing and all! But then Alquaeda has long been there for the US, anyway, so it appears nothing's changed, Like I said , if Binladen is alive it is most defintely with the full blessing of the US.

Therefore amongst other things, more trouble in the US housing market! Hmm not something the US exactly needs at this time, now is it? and all that junk from wal-mart would cost more. "Not only do cheap imports subsidise American consumers but China's large purchases of Treasury bonds also hold down American interest rates, thereby subsidising home buyers." These two paragraphs gave me some food for thought "

Joseph Campbell is new age???!!!!!!! Well, that is news to me. But, whatever! Perhaps some new age type persons jumped on some of the things he said, but.............. Joseph John Campbell (March 26, 1904 – October 31, 1987) was an American mythology professor, writer, and orator. With a bunch of books under his belt, many written long before 'new age' became 'trendy. if he was 'new age' I highly doubt he set out to be.

NO one is saying that hate wal-mart, god how childish is that? I am not giving them my hard earned money because I am of the opinion, they haven't earned it! Betsy, you still didn't read or cannot comprehend "Wal-Mart has revised its lock-in procedure to make sure that there a night manager with a key to open the doors in the case of an overnight emergency." They revised the lock-in procedure to make sure there is a night manager, with a key to open the doors in an emergency. That means, the employees are still locked in! the revision is to make sure there is a night manager with a key.(read the sentence) What does that mean? is the night manager present at the store? doesn't say Did wal-mart provide the manager with a beeper? doesn't say It is clear that employees are still being locked in. It says NOTHING, as to what change they exactly made to ensure a manager with a key, will open doors. it is a vague, statement of pacification, for readers such as yourself, who never ask a question of anything, and just accept the vagueness of the said statement, as you demonstrated.

while you may be "hung up" on Mithra, in the initial documentary, the comparisons, are more broad ranging. Give the original movie a go! I don't know anything about "new age" stuff. or even what qualifies as "new age" and honestly I am not all that interested. I saw this movie, thought it was good. checked out more stuff. had already read numerous Joseph Campbell books, so I was familiar with the concepts being put forward etc.,

of course betsy fails to read, straight from the horse's mouth "Wal-Mart Vice President for Communications Mona Williams said that the company locks in workers at approximately 10 percent of its stores located in high-crime areas. She said that Wal-Mart has revised its lock-in procedure to make sure that there a night manager with a key to open the doors in the case of an overnight emergency." the company, NOT individual managers, the company itself, as policy. Have they changed that policy? NO, they have not! They are still locking people in, they are just going to ....... make sure that there is a night manager with a key to open the doors in case there is in the case of an overnight emergency." what does that mean? will the manager be present? doesn't say. I also IMO, believe the difference in the way Canadian employees vs US and even Chinese employees are treated, have much more to do with different labour laws, within the countries themselves. note Betsy, I was referring to American workers in the article? probably not.

The monomyth, including Jesus, has more to do with Mithra, but, I believe Mithra was born of a virgin, from what I have read. I referred to a movie zeitgeist the first section has to do with religions Here are the resources used to put together the first part http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/sources.htm Massey, Gerald - The Historic Jesus and the Mythical Christ, The Book Tree Carpenter, Edward: Pagan and Christian Creeds: Their Origin and Meaning Book Tree, 1998 Acharya S - The Christ Conspiracy, Adventures Unlimited Press Massey, Gerald - Ancient Egypt: Light of the World, Kessinger Publishing Churchward, Albert -The Origin and Evolution of Religion, The Book Tree Acharya S - Suns of God, Adventures Unlimited Press Murdock, D.M. - Who was Jesus?, Steller House Publishing Allegro, John - The Dead Sea Scrolls and the Christian Myth, Prometheus Books Frazer, Sir James: The Golden Bough, Touchstone Pub., 1890 Maxwell, Tice, Snow - That Old Time Religion, The Book Tree Rolleston, Frances: Mazzaroth, Rivingtons, Waterloo Place, 1862 Cumont, Franz: Astrology and Religion Among the Greeks and Romans Cosimo Classics 1912 King James Version, The Holy Bible, Holman Fideler, David: Jesus Christ, Sun of God Quest Books, 1993 Berry, Gerald: Religions Of The World, Barnes & Noble Pub., 1965 Leedom, Tim C - The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You To Read, TS Books Paine, Thomas - The Age of Reason Wheless, Joseph: Forgery in Christianity: A Documented Record of the Foundations of the Christian Religion 1930 Remsburg, John E. - The Christ: A Critical Review and Analysis of the Evidence of His Existence, Prometheus Books Massey, Gerald - Egyptian Book of the Dead and the Mysteries of Amenta, Kessinger Publishing Irvin, Jan & Rutajit, Andrew - Astrotheology and Shamanism, The Book Tree Doherty, Earl - The Jesus Puzzle: Did Christianity Begin with a Mythical Christ?, Age of Reason Pub. Campbell, Joseph - Creative Mythology: The Masks of God, Penguin Doane, T.W. - Bible Myths and Their Parallels in Other Religions, Health Research Maxwell, Jordan: The Light of World (Film Series) IRES Singh, Madanjeet: The Sun- Symbol of Power and Life, UNESCO, 1993 Flemming, Brian: The God Who Wasn't There (Film) 2005 The Naked Truth (Film) IRES Jackson, John G. : Christianity Before Christ, American Atheist Press, 1985 inc the original movie, that started this You can watch the first part here http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5216975979627863972 pertaining to Christianity and more (the monomyth archetype) Have you read any Joseph campbell

This is btw one of my fave 'axe to grind' with wal-mart stories http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/18/national...artner=USERLAND Workers Assail Night Lock-Ins by Wal-Mart Workers Assail Night Lock-Ins by Wal-Mart By STEVEN GREENHOUSE Published: January 18, 2004 Looking back to that night, Michael Rodriguez still has trouble believing the situation he faced when he was stocking shelves on the overnight shift at the Sam's Club in Corpus Christi, Tex. It was 3 a.m., Mr. Rodriguez recalled, some heavy machinery had just smashed into his ankle, and he had no idea how he would get to the hospital. The Sam's Club, a Wal-Mart subsidiary, had locked its overnight workers in, as it always did, to keep robbers out and, as some managers say, to prevent employee theft. As usual, there was no manager with a key to let Mr. Rodriguez out. The fire exit, he said, was hardly an option — management had drummed into the overnight workers that if they ever used that exit for anything but a fire, they would lose their jobs. "My ankle was crushed," Mr. Rodriguez said, explaining he had been struck by an electronic cart driven by an employee moving stacks of merchandise. "I was yelling and running around like a hurt dog that had been hit by a car. Another worker made some phone calls to reach a manager, and it took an hour for someone to get there and unlock the door." The reason for Mr. Rodriguez's delayed trip to the hospital was a little-known Wal-Mart policy: the lock-in. For more than 15 years, Wal-Mart Stores Inc., the world's largest retailer, has locked in overnight employees at some of its Wal-Mart and Sam's Club stores. It is a policy that many employees say has created disconcerting situations, such as when a worker in Indiana suffered a heart attack, when hurricanes hit in Florida and when workers' wives have gone into labor. "You could be bleeding to death, and they'll have you locked in," Mr. Rodriguez said. "Being locked in in an emergency like that, that's not right." http://www.nacsonline.com/NR/exeres/00008b...cookie%5Ftest=1 and of course, once the public finds out, bad PR......... they acknowledge they lock in the employees! Wal-Mart Vice President for Communications Mona Williams said that the company locks in workers at approximately 10 percent of its stores located in high-crime areas. She said that Wal-Mart has revised its lock-in procedure to make sure that there a night manager with a key to open the doors in the case of an overnight emergency. Some Wal-Mart employees said that the company revised its lock-in procedure on January 1, when the Times began researching the practice. so wal-mart, upon it being publicized after a few too many incident of employee's being locked into the store with no way out, no manager with a key ( and I mean, why pay a manager, when you can lock them in, like the slaves wal-mart clearly think they are!) at least they say, they changed their policy, but did they? if they did , have they changed it back to save $$$ Pathetic!

touche!!! and justify it, through all manner of excuses, like "wmd's"? and the foolish lap it up!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtm...cnchina107a.xml and.................. Another drama, real-life? So if the US pushes China, via trade sanctions, will China push back?

do you also need to be spoonfed? what is with DEMANDING posters? I told you I made an informed decision, I vote with my dollar, I am well within my right to do so. Stop your petty demands, which you use as an opportunity to take cheap shots at me. It doesn't appear that way. shop wherever you want, I truly don't care!

So many good questions. Is he dead? -Voice last picked up 2001 in Tora Bora, as reported by pentagon. (The US extensively monitored OBL) -Numerous reports of his death around the Dec.2001 period inc. an obituary. -No new tapes from Binladen (except apparently ones that can't be verified, are audio only and this latest, which is old footage, unless OBL has found the fountain of youth(lol)) -OBL was a man in poor health, walked with a cane and required dialysis, even prior to 9/11. -Last linked visavis actual evidence to a crime committed nearly 20 yrs ago -Is not wanted in connection with 9/11 -suspect tape that links 9/11 to Osama , which is interesting to note that the FBI, doesn't even buy into this crock of baloney tape, as to this day, Osama is still not wanted for 9/11, despite his "confession" tape, which one would think would be good enough?? It seems to be known in the Muslim world that he is dead, Karzai, Mushareff, even Bush and Rumsfeld, don't seem to give him much thought. Do they know he is dead, that's why they don't worry about him?( They would certainly be privy to that type of info) Then we have to think of Osama the CIA agent, Osama who was in Kosovo,( inc. issued a passport) fighting along side the troops , armed and supplied by America/NATO. Osama who fought at the behest of the US , against Russia, in Afghanistan. Osama was quite the right hand man of the US. If he is alive, why isn't he dead? That isn't really plausible that he is alive, With the technology available, if this man made a phone call , (landline, cell or satellite phone, sent a fax, an e-mail) anywhere in the world it would be picked up. http://www.fas.org/irp/program/process/echelon.htm Echelon would take care of that. For one! Osama's voice would be able to be picked, as his voice has been extensively recorded.(apparently it is quite distinct, plus the keywords he would be using!) I am , in the "he is dead" camp myself. Dead but still useful!!!! If he is alive, he is alive? (how the hell is that possible) At the will of , and with the blessing of the US, that is the only possible reason for him to still be alive

actually to the contrary, if you do enough reading you find that Christianity was very much related to the early pagan religions. In fact jumping right on out of them. If I may ask, what are you reading?

btw: cybercoma et al Have you ever read Joseph Campbell? I think he is quite brilliant, he did some excellent interviews with Bill Moyers, some time ago, anyway.... His one book touches very much on the theme of this movie. http://www.amazon.ca/Hero-Thousand-Faces-J...l/dp/0691017840 The Hero with a Thousand Faces (1949) is a non-fiction book, and seminal work of comparative mythology by Joseph Campbell. In this publication, Campbell discusses his theory of the journey of the archetypal hero found in world mythologies and religions. excellent book, I read it some time ago, along with numerous others. I would think the man who made this movie, was influenced by this work, not soley. As he is discussing, the very thing Campbell analyzes in his book. The monomyth, which is the theme that runs through this movie. Also, did you watch the movie zeitgeist, you can google it, anyway, at the beginning, there is a part of that movie, that touches on this topic also, and makes some seriously interesting links between astrology and the Christ story.

I thought you might and if you didn't you would be interested. I found out about because I heard the man, who made the movie interviewed and it piqued my interest.