blackascoal

Well, I am perfectly willing to admit that I misinterpreted your intial point, but you did present an excerpt from a news story about Venezuela and Iran in the context of a growing global movement to oppose US imperialism. Regardless, I stand by my point that if you asked the people of the world which side of an argument, dispute, who would they want as an ally, whatever and the choices were limited to 1) the US, or 2) an alliance of states like Venezuela, Iran, Cuba, even Russia, I would still wager that the overwhelming majority of both governments and their citizenry would align themselves with Washington over Caracas-Tehran. And I also feel very strongly that once Bush is out of office (and maybe even beforehand if the Democrats are able to influence foreign policy away from Bush's long list of disasters), the pendulum will swing back a few degrees to be more in favor of US policy. Not overshelmingly so, but I don't see that there is possible room for the pendulum to swing farther from the midpoint than it is right now. I don't completely disagree with you my brother, and I hope that the pendulum does indeed swing back a bit. But it ain't just Bush to blame. As much as I dispise that evil bastard he didn't create America's penchant for war as a business. My point is that America must now re-examine our foreign policy. If we (America) continue on this disastrous course the blowback will destroy us from within. I posted the article on Iran and Venezula as symbolic of what is happening throughout Latin America, the middle east, and Asia. Even the Iraqis will stand against us. We need the rest of the world more than it needs us.

To the dismay of the DLC, the republican wing of the Democratic Party, Sen. Obama may soon run for president against their chosen candiddate, Hillary "Xena the War Queen" Clinton. excerpt ... January 16, 2007 Obama Takes First Step Toward Running in ’08 By JEFF ZELENY WASHINGTON – Senator Barack Obama took his first step into the Democratic presidential race today by opening an exploratory committee to raise money and begin building a campaign designed “to change our politics.” He said he would make a formal declaration Feb. 10 in his home state of Illinois. “Running for the presidency is a profound decision – a decision no one should make on the basis of media hype or personal ambition alone,” Mr. Obama said in a video address e-mailed to his supporters. “So before I committed myself and my family to this race, I wanted to be sure that this was right for us and, more importantly, right for the country.” Mr. Obama disclosed his decision on his Web site and was not planning to make other statements today. Instead, he was making a series of telephone calls to key Democratic leaders in Iowa, New Hampshire and other states with early contests on the party’s 2008 nominating calendar. Mr. Obama, 45, was elected to the Senate two years ago. He became the sixth Democrat to enter the prospective field, joining Senators Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware and Christopher J. Dodd of Connecticut, former Senator John Edwards of North Carolina, former Gov. Tom Vilsack of Iowa and Representative Dennis J. Kucinich of Ohio. Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York is expected to join the Democratic field soon and New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson said he would make his decision known by month’s end. Senator John F. Kerry of Massachusetts also is weighing another run. By now, the rapid trajectory of Mr. Obama is a well-established tale, rising from law professor to state senator to U.S. senator in less than a decade. He is the only African-American serving in the U.S. Senate and could be only black presidential candidate this year. ----------------------------------------------------------- I don't think his lack of experience will hurt him given that he has opposed the Iraq war since its beginning by calling it "dumb unnecessary war", while the more experienced politicians on both sides of the aisle, including the war queen, were supporting what has ultimately turned out to be dumb unnecessary war. The American people are looking for something different to lead the country besides the same worn-out sellout politicians .. and Obama is about as different as America has ever seen as president. But his "difference" isn't his trump card .. his intelligence is Comparing him to Bush is like comparing Einstein to Mr. Froggy.

As always, Clinton is the straw that Bush supporters grasp for when all else fails. Correct .. and without a doubt .. all else has indeed failed.

Seems listening to Bush was good enough for a healthy audience share last Sunday (60 minutes). Taliban Jack wasn't invited. Which was met with resounding critcism and disdain .. as well as a 70% disapproval .. even by many republicans.

No he doesn't and the question I asked him was what "public law" authorized that.

Liam, They all have that opportunity right now. How many of them are in Iraq? How long will the british be there? What is the sentiment of the british people, our so-called closet ally? I'm not suggesting that nations are lining up to attack the US, but the loss of American influence, stature, power, and respect all over the world is undeniable. What's an even worse slap in the face .. Iraq will soon be lining up against the US as well. All those dead bodies, all the resources spent and lost .. only to have the Iraqi people and government stand against us. Any doubt this is true .. take a closer look at Iraq's new found relationship with Iran.

I would hardly characterize the friendship between Chavez and Ahmenijad as the world's lining up against US imperialism. Chavez and Ahmenijad are politicians who can fan the flames of their own supporters by rallying against the evil Yankee. Chavez realizes the grandfather of Latin Socialism, Fidel, will soon be joining Lenin in some bleak, nihilistic void, and wants to set himself up as the go-to guy in terms of Latin America's poor. Ahmenijad's popularity is on the decline in Iran and he wants to shore up his political support. Ask the average Venezuelan or Iranian what they think of the US and you'd probably get a mixed response trending toward positive. American movies, TV, innovations, economic successes, medical research, etc. are huge plusses. US military activity and lack of diplomacy, Guantanamo, etc. are huge minuses. The thing is, most of the minuses can be directly attributed to the Bush administration. Once Bush is gone and the US strikes out on a slightly different trajectory, I wager that US popularity will certainly not go down. For what it's worth, I think if you polled all the nations asking "would you rather be an ally of the US' or an ally of Iran/Venezuela's?" you'd find out pretty quickly that the US is far more popular, globally, than you're portraying. Without any scientific studies to back it up, I'd be willing to wager the results would be somewhere in the vicinity of 10:1 in favor of the US over Iran/Venezuela. I wouldn't characterize Iran and Venezula as the world either .. nor did I. Nor do I suggest that "the US will go down". But it doesn't take genius to recognize the waning influence of America and the push against American inperialism in the world today. I doesn't take genius tp recognize that America is no longer "the leader of the free world" nor any world outside of Hollywood. I agree with you that most of the minuses have come by way of the worst US Administration in American history, however, what this idiot has done is expose an underside of America foreign policy that has been resident in all US Administrations since WWII. Bush has stripped the Emperor naked and he has exposed the gaping hole in the concept democracy .. MONEY. Inject enough money in a democracy and it will morph into a plutocracy where the will of the people will be replaced by the will of corporations. But money is also our Achilles Heel. While we (America) spend untold money on weapons that only a demon could love .. our would even possess .. to "protect" America from outside threats, the bomb that threatens us most will come wrapped in money to attack our economic infrastructure. Put aside the countless NEEDLESS deaths that come of this war, Bush has spent nearly half a trillion dollars waging it, and in the meantime, he has borrowed more foreign capital than all previous US presidents COMBINED. The US dollar is based on nothing more than the paper it's printed on and its status as the international currency. Since 2002 and the start of the mindless war, the euro has rapidly moved to replace the dollar as the international currency. Do you believe that the rush to replace the dollar had nothing to do with the war on Iraq? Saddam replaced the dollar with the euro and we attacked and lynched him. Iran has now replaced the dollar with the euro and guess what? Now we want to attack them. The noise about nuclear weapons, terrorism, WMD, 9/11, liberty and democracy is all bullshit. This is all about money and the world recognizes that even more clearly now. Do you think the rest of the world is too dumb to realize why we attacked Iraq and too dumb to recognize the proposed Iraq law that turns its oil resources over to foreign corporations isn't proof of what this war is about? Forget about polls for a moment, even though there are plenty of world opinion polls that dispute the love of America that you stated, how many of our allies do you see left in Iraq? After the british leave, the Japanese have already said they'll be right behind them. How many allies are demanding tough sanctions on Iran? Are there tough sanctions on Iran? How many allies do you see joining us in the "global war on terror"? Do you believe our recent attack on Somalia will bring much of the free world along? Iran and Venezula are symbolic of what is happening all over the world .. even in England. Have you not noticed the dramatic shift to the left throughout Latin America and the forming of alliances all over the world that do not include the US. Have you not noticed that many leaders who got in bed with Bush were removed from office by their own citizens .. with Tony Blair next on th chopping block? A majority of brits think the best thing they can do to avoid terrorism is to distance themselves from America. My point to you is that yes, absolutely, America will survive. But we've spent all the capital we had from our leadership in WWII. The only sane way forward for us now is to become a better global partner and to cast off our imperialistic manner of foreign policy. The Emperor has no clothes and no one is afraid of our nakedness. America opened the door to nuclear destruction and there is no way to put that genie back in the bottle. Nations that want nuclear weapons will acquire them and as North Korea has clearly demonstrated, all you need is one. Our (America) failures in Iraq, Vietnam, and Afghanistan have also clearly demonstrated the limits of military power. With all our shiny new jets, fresh off the line tanks and armor, spify uniforms, and enough nuclear weapons to blow earth into another galaxy .. and we still cannot defeat any nation the size of Ohio by ourselves .. unless we nuke them. America will recover, but our days as the Emperor are over.

This "plan" has been villified from everyone to the American people, republicans, the Iraqi people, and planet earth. Where's the argument?

there's another choice .. stick around in Iraq and wait for that Saigon Moment.

But you already have.....the links are photos of VLCC/ULCC.....no reading required (made it easy for you). The Republicans don't feel nearly as bad as the Democrats did in 2002 when handed their ass. The US will survive either trend, as it has in the past. Start walkin' NOPE .. your comments are far too dumb to argue with .. play with sometimes, mock sometimes, but never to be taken seriously. Additionally, you don't seem capable of answering questions .. knew that when you ran the fuck away and offered a "public law" as an answer to questions never asked. There is no question that America will survive. In fact, things are looker much better even now as I watch the right-wing squirm and the world mock the idiocy of the Bush_Cheney Administration. Oh, hell yes, we will survive and become a better nation now that the prowar .. as long as someone else does the dying .. politicians on both sides of the political aisle run for their political lives. The sun seems brighter these days knowing that your Idiot-in-Chief has little to no support for anything he does .. knowing that he has the lowest support of any president in American history .. and the Dark Overlord of a vice-president carries about an 8% approval rating. Now, did I argue with you, take you seriously, or did I just have fun mocking you?

Well, posting on a Canadian forum and using "we" is kind of like a white guy walking into a NAACP meeting and saying "we". It just looks self-centred or arrogant or both. It's not that difficult to discern actually, given that I've qualified myself as an American many times. Interesting you used the "white guy" analogy given that I attended a Martin Luther King celebration, at an NAACP event, just yesterday, where I listened to several "white guys" using the term "we". I guess like me, they assumed that people had brains.

Money talks...your bullshit walks. These are not Canival cruise ships: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...Qaiq.jpg/800px- http://supertankers.topcities.com/17a20160.jpg "Bush-Cheney" .. Now there's a combination that's real popular What was that shit you said .."bullshit walks". Do you mean like the parade of knuckledragging republicans that were pushed out the political door in 2006 .. directly due to the stupidity of the brainless twins you celebrate? Or did you mean the parade of republicans .. that are left .. that are walking off the Bush plantation on Iraq and his "surge" of more IED fodder? Perhaps you should go play with someone else dude because I'll be more than happy to pont out the abject and absolute failures of the knucklehead twins .. knowing that you don't have a response that rises above the 8th grade level. Save your links dude .. I don't read that bullshit. Not sure why others here argue with the mindless shit you post .. but I ain't (eb) the one. Bush_Cheney ..

I am barely restraining myself, through clenched teeth, as I type. I am American, and I am extremely well aware that I am on a Canadian forum. I am well aware of the levels of anti-Americanism in your country. Frankly, I'm not impressed. Some of the people in your country, with views like yours, can stick your tongue out with impunity at the US, knowing full well that we are not imperialistic or agressive. If the Internet existed, oh, in 1956, do you think Hungarians would be making angry posts at the real imperialists, the former Soviet Union? Or in the China of Tianamen Square days, or even now, would the Chinese dare mock out their leaders? Or better yet, how about Tibetans? Would they deign to make assinine posts about the Chinese? < sarcasm>Oh no, they love their Chinese brothers, right? </ sarcasm> Hmmm .. "anti-american" .. which I would define as that which works against the best interests of the United States .. and I can't think of anything more anti-american than the attack on Iraq which has isolated the US, wasted billions upon billions of taxpayer money, sent thousands of our own troops to their needless deaths, mass-murdered hundereds of thousands of innocent people, most of them women and children and committed atrocities before the gaze of the entire world, turned Iraq over to Iran another so-called enemy, made the US and the world less safe, and brought an end to the American Century .. all things that it appears you supported. Anti-American And I'm not Canadian, I'm just another of the VAST MAJORITY of AMERICANS, including many REPUBLICANS, who have rejected your nonsensical definition and idiotic right-wing "leadership". Why are you screaming at Canadians when the American people and planet earth feel the exact same way?

You are aware that this is a Canadian forum? I frankly find your presumption self-centred and arrogant but not imperialistic. What is the US "taking militarily"?To my knowledge, the US does not exact tribute from colonies. So I'm on a Canadian forum .. so what? And you couldn't possibly be dim enough to think that I actually care how you find my posts. Did you read a comment from me that said we exact tribute from colonies? Do you think I don't know why you didn't address what I actually said? Incredible.

If you live in Canada .. you should be worried about that. Of course, as usual, your facts are wrong .. but don't let that stop you.

I don't spend much time arguing with the right-wing. What's the point? They are a disaster and America now clearly recognizes that. Even republicans are jumping ship like rats. They have been a complete and total failure on every level. They say mindless shit like "George W. Bush didn't start the Iraq War, but he may damn well finish it." Just mindless. The world knows who started this war and there isn't a chance in hell that Bush will finish it. Think the American people blame Clinton for the failure of Iraq? .. SEE: 2006 elections. The point of this thread was to expose the backdoor oil deal that the Bush Administration went to war to get. Nearly half a trillion dollars, thousands of US troops dead, tens of thousands more wounded and maimed, and hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis .. to rape Iraq of its resources. It demonstrates that 9/11, WMD, "terrorism", or suppression of the Iraqis had nothing to do with this mass-murder. As soon as the US gets kicked the fuck up out of Iraq, the Iraqi people will never allow this robbery to stand. It doesn't matter what the puppet government agrees to, the Iraqi people and the Iranian leaders .. who are the real beneficiaries of this disaster .. will never accept and will wipe their asses with the paper these contracts are written on. Iran will then not only be in control of their own oil resources, but will have a big hand in the oil resources of Iraq. The war on Iraq was a plan devised by idiots and in spite of the comments by the forever-delluded, the American people have had enough of the ignorance of the right-wing. Why argue with them? What's the point? They have failed at everything.

Nowhere in the reading of the Iraq Liberation Act are the words "overthrow" of "invade" to be found. If the law required the US to overthrow or invade Iraq, why was the fraud of WMD that didn't exist used as a pretext? Additionally ... "This Act makes clear that it is the sense of the Congress that the United States should support those elements of the Iraqi opposition that advocate a very different future for Iraq than the bitter reality of internal repression and external aggression that the current regime in Baghdad now offers." A long ass way from invasion. "U.S. support must be attuned to what the opposition can effectively make use of as it develops over time." Which clearly demonstrates that this policy was intended to change Iraq from within, not by invasion as suggested by Bush_Cheney. This act was offered as some kind of "rationale" for these questions ... How much more spelling out is required for them (the right-wing) to figure out that Saddam was not involved in 9/11, did not possess WMD, had no real relationship to Al Queda, posed no threat to America or the world, and had no capability of producing "mushroom clouds" in 45 minutes or 45 months?... It appears that it never crosses their "minds" to ask why the most sophisticated military and intelligence apparatus on the planet cannot find a 6'7" guy in a stone-age land of 5'8" people .. Or why the Bush Administration defunded and called off the search for the most wanted man on earth .. Or why the Idiot-in-Chief would say "I don't think about Bin Laden that much", the man who supposedly masterminded the worst attack on US soil in history ... Or why we have 150,000 troops in Iraq and 25,000 in Afghanistan. The Iraq Liberation Act does not address any of those questions at all by any stretch of the imagination. My point remains .. Bin Laden and justice for 9/11 was NEVER the priority .. in fact, this administration allowed Bin Laden to escape at Tora Bora in 2001 and by 2002 Bush barely mentioned him for the next 4 years. As proved once again, the right-wing doesn't seem to possess much of any analytical or interpretive skills. Take a stab at the actual questions I actually asked. Neat strawman though ...

Many of these countries that are lining up against us are oil producing nations and are fast moving to the euro as a way of attacking our colonialist nature. Case in point ... excerpt ... Euro displaces dollar in bond markets By David Oakley and Gillian Tett in London Published: January 14 2007 http://www.ft.com/cms/s/572b41a6-a414-11db...00779e2340.html The euro has displaced the US dollar as the world’s pre-eminent currency in international bond markets, having outstripped the dollar-denominated market for the second year in a row. The data consolidate news last month that the value of euro notes in circulation had overtaken the dollar for the first time. Outstanding debt issued in the euro was worth the equivalent of $4,836bn at the end of 2006 compared with $3,892bn for the dollar, according to International Capital Market Association data. Outstanding euro-denominated debt accounts for 45 per cent of the global market, compared with 37 per cent for the dollar. New issuance last year accounted for 49 per cent of the global total. That represents a startling turnabout from the pattern seen in recent decades, when the US bond market dwarfed its European rival: as recently as 2002, outstanding euro-denominated issuance represented just 27 per cent of the global pie, compared with 51 per cent for the dollar. ------------------------------------- It's from the Financial Times / US and Canada edition. Does that count as a "credible source"?

No, however any idiot who think's that Russia, China, Venezuela, and Iran, are more righteous than the US are complete fool's. All one has to do is look at Tibet and Checnya. I don't know, I think the world would rather ally with Israel, than a country which denies the holocaust, and has dream's of wiping out the Jews. You can find "idiots" at your parents house. I have not resorted to calling you names. Post where I said the either Russia or China are "more righteous" than the US. I see you're still incapable of debating what is actually said. And you can think whatever you want about Israel .. but it doesn't have oil or for that matter, much of anything else other nations need. Your thought of the worlds love of Israel is so apparent in the tough as nails sanctions on Iran .. which do not exist. It does appear .. at least from the really real world .. that Israel's power and influence in the world doesn't amount to much.

Blackascoal when you use "us" in the sentence above, is that part of the American imperialism? Indeed, while I'm on the topic, can you please define what you mean by "imperialism"? "Us" implies that I am an American. "Imperialism" is the US penchant for overthrow of even democratically elected leaders, installing brutal dictators when it fits our purposes, war as a business, and a belief that we can militarily take whatever we want.

What are you talking about. I think the vast majority of NATO members will always support America over China, Russia, Iran, and Venezuela. Sure .. and that is just so damn obvious in the over-whelming support for America in Iraq .. who will soon be left fighting alone there. By the way, you forgot to add IRAQ to the list which is now, thanks to the Idiot-in-Chief, is more closely aligned with IRAN than the US.

WOW .. that is quite amazing .. given the 2006 election and the sinking of the right-wing ship and the declining number of republicans and the republican shift to the left and the loss and stature of the US since Bush has been in office .. and a host of all-manner of other really obvious shit. But feel free to think any damn thing you want about the left.

Adding Israel, a nation devoid of resources that consistently spies on the US and sells US weapons and technology to our enemies and marches to its own drummer .. would be "just for fun". I don't spend a lot of time arguing with right-wingers who haven't gotten anything right for at least 6 years. Feel free to ignore the isolation that America is now faced with and the rising allainces against us if you choose. Doesn't matter.

Doesn't matter....it was the stated policy (Public Law) of the United States to overthrow the government of Saddam Hussein, long before 9/11 ever happened. How much more spelling out is required? Is that supposed to pass as "rationale" or intelligence. What "public law" of the US was there to overthrow Saddam? What in the hell is "public law? .. Aren't all laws public?

The problem I have with the right-wing is that they seem to possess no analytical or interpretive skills whatsoever. They need everything spelled out to them .. and even when it is clearly spelled out, they still don't get it. How much more spelling out is required for them to figure out that Saddam was not involved in 9/11, did not possess WMD, had no real relationship to Al Queda, posed no threat to America or the world, and had no capability of producing "mushroom clouds" in 45 minutes or 45 months? How much more spelling out is required for the right to figure out that Bin Laden or revenge for 9/11 was NEVER the priority? Of course, many of them will ask to see official documents for that .. as if they'd get it even then .. but few of them seem to have the capability to discern the obvious. It appears that it never crosses their "minds" to ask why the most sophisticated military and intelligence apparatus on the planet cannot find a 6'7" guy in a stone-age land of 5'8" people .. Or why the Bush Administration defunded and called off the search for the most wanted man on earth .. Or why the Idiot-in-Chief would say "I don't think about Bin Laden that much", the man who supposedly masterminded the worst attack on US soil in history ... Or why we have 150,000 troops in Iraq and 25,000 in Afghanistan. Bin Laden and revenge for 9/11 were NEVER the priority and victory is not premised on either one. It seems as though the right believes that interpretive skills are anti-american .. and Cheney recently said as much.