Michael Hardner

eyeball, Ok. So you have some sectors that are forced to submit to electronic monitoring (EM). And there are some that are not. There is a suspicion that sport fishing could have an impact, and they don't submit to EM. I can understand, somewhat, the rationale that the volumes involved in sport fishing are too low, and that the government still is trying to limit their catches without EM. Are there any other competing sectors that do not submit to EM ?

eyeball, I'll agree that loggers and fishers aren't well appreciated in many sectors of society, but you are appreciated more than you think. For one thing, government spends a lot of effort and attention on those livelihoods, as these are marquis products produced in Canada. Furthermore, these industries are part of our heritage so people do listen to what happens, and the CBC is usually there to cover the issues. In the 1990s, my livelihood was working as a mainframe software consultant. Large companies in Canada simply exported what I do to Asia lock stock and barrel. There were thousands of high paying jobs lost, and nobody cared. I don't remember hearing any coverage of what happened, and the public was largely unaware. It wasn't because there weren't a lot of people affected, but because we had no advocates to speak for us in the media. High tech, on the whole, was thriving we were led to believe, although the macroeconomics had changed significantly and irreversibly. If you listened to the CBC, you would think that Canada is only made up of farmers, assembly line workers, medical workers, fishers, loggers, and teachers. As to the specifics to your industry, and how the government screwed that up, we're discussing that on another thread.

eye, Thanks for that evocative description of what happened. It's easy to forget the perspective of the individual when these large numbers are talked about. I, too, went through a crisis that was due to the economics of my chosen livelihood. Good for you that you made it through. What doesn't kill us makes us stronger, eh ?

max, I think it's time to start finding new purposes for ourselves, and we shouldn't assume that failing businesses should be revived.

eyeball, eyeball, come in eyeball... over.

SB Except that we're also on here criticizing them for their bad behavior. I don't think it's asking too much of us to be better than politicians. Certainly, I wouldn't expect Harper or Ignatieff to admit they made a mistake in the HofC but I would expect a poster here to admit if their argument was wrong. I certainly would.

Jerry, I don't think it's clear that the working class citizens, whomever you might mean, have seen a reduction in their standard of living. I would say that earning power hasn't increased, but that consumers have more choices and cheaper imports due to trade agreements. Of course, it's very difficult to assess this. My limited understanding of basic economics tells me that trade agreements between countries generally benefit both parties, although there are individuals on both sides who will lose. Countries and individuals tend to specialize in what they're good at, and the goods/services are thereby most efficiently overall. Canada could grow pineapples domestically, and Costa Rica could try to produce maple syrup but it wouldn't be efficient to do so. Depending on the cost of transportation, it's more efficient for each country to produce what they're good at producing, then export it. It's hard, though, because assessing what happens economically is very complicated, and the average television or newspaper story can't do the issue justice because "stories" tend to have characters, emotions, conflict and so forth. Certainly a lot of the problems we have seen is due to corporate stupidity, rather than larger structural problems . I would say that those who made mistakes should fail, and that the companies that rise from the ashes will do a better job - whether in manufacturing or banking. In the short term, we need to shore up our social safety net while we wait for economic growth to resume.

Hydraboss, Not really. I didn't own a vehicle until after I was 40. Until then, my taxes paid for credits for the vehicle manufacturers, for roads, and so forth. And do your kids go to school ? Why should I pay for your kids to go to school ?

Eyeball, why wouldn't other fishing vessels have their catches audited as well ? Are there independent (non DFO) studies of the situation as well ? Sayings such as 'governments lie, fish die' are - to me - evidence that the current situation isn't engaging everyone. But, those who are disengaged may be doing so for the wrong reasons. Kind of like people not voting - everyone seems to assume that it's the politicians' faults when most the reasons I hear amount to laziness/carelessness.

A rare admission of ... exaggeration ... from Mr. Canada. Thank you. Now, the best posters here say things that are more extreme than the CBC (on the right or the left) without having to exaggerate. Argus is one who comes to mind as someone with views that wouldn't be heard on the radio, but are usually backed with solid arguments. So, Mr. Canada, now that you have admitted what you are, why not join the rest of us in the pool of reasonables ? The water's fine !

The rules should be there to deal with problems, and they shouldn't exist as a source of debate and discussion themselves. Social situations work best with minimal arbitration, and hopefully we can continue in this way. ( I have ruined a few forums and almost driven myself crazy by becoming a magistrate of forum rules. ) Let's move forward.

Mr. Canada, A little bit of statistical slight of hand there, but I don't buy it. If you want to talk about the opinions of those born in Canada then show us a statistic that speaks to that number. Otherwise, don't "most likely" us into false conclusions. Thank you. Furthermore, I have already asked for comparative statistics, which you haven't provided. I would also like some idea of how this number (for Muslims) has changed with time. If you're really interested in the facts, then get this information please. (And, by the way, you're not interested in facts, you arrive on the scene with your conclusion ready and only show us facts that support them)

I take this story, rather, as an example of why these types of workplaces must go. The waste of effort that goes into these types of arbitration is astounding. In a normal social environment, the carriers themselves would be able to deal with the issue rather than invoking court rulings and such.

Why is atheism seen as such a thread ?

As I said, Alta, it doesn't have to be more. There's no reason why we can't downsize government from one area as long as we're adding it to another.

Thanks, BCC. As I suspected, this is another example of someone trying to drape some kind of principle around their dislike of certain people. Nothing more.

More drive-bys from Mr. Canada. 5,000 estimated honour killings per year. To put this in perspective, that's a 1 in 1,000,000 chance. There are 1000-1500 Americans injured by lightning every year. cite

Actually, it doesn't have to be wasteful. Given that such a governing body would take power away from other levels of government, it's an opportunity to downsize those other levels, and to start fresh with this new body. One of the best ways to fix a bureaucratic mess is to walk away from it and let it die.

Sorry, for those of us who successfully steer wide of the many 'tempests in a teapot' here on MLW, can we have a brief description of what the quote referred to, and the implied offense ?

Argus, So let's articulate, then, what we're afraid of. A Muslim takeover of Canada ? Or something less, like religious clerics taking part in dispute resolution ? My suspicions is that this may be just aimless fear mongering, or at best - just a fear of change. There have been fears in the past about other cultures depleting Canada somehow, and yet we persist.

For balance, we should see a comparison against what immigrants from other religious groups think about allowing family dispute resolution using clerics from their religions. And I don't see the basis for any concern here, as this just seems like more stirring of the pot.

Guyser, The government has a measure of control over the supply of doctors, though. I'd be interested in seeing a breakdown of where the shortages are, and some ideas of what could be done to address that.

Smallc, You can say that "things aren't as broken" but unless data is PUBLISHED, it's all just speculation. The idea isn't to give people the information so that they can view wait times at different hospitals and say "Hmmm.... let's go to the place with th 5 hour wait time...". The idea is to publish data over time so that people can hold management responsible for wait times, and maybe even demand that times go DOWN over time and not up. Without information, then the public is left to react with "oh well, what can you do?" much as you have done.

Smallc, What is your point ? That we shouldn't measure wait times for ERs ? I'm a proponent of universal health care. As such, I'd like for us to collectively find mechanisms for ensuring that it thrives and prospers. The government of Alberta has taken some steps in the right direction. I think we need to applaud that and continue to move in that direction. I don't see any alternative.

Actually, I'm impressed with what Alberta has done here, although it's still a little short of what would be required. It seems that you can generate graphs back to 2007 (the service goals were set in 2005, but at least Alberta has started measuring against the benchmarks) and you can select a variety of things to measure. The graphs could still be easier to use, but they're not bad. And I don't see ER times measured here. For some reason, nobody wants to measure ER times. Finally, I would like to see this measured by an independent body. It seems like we still have hospitals/ministries self-reporting. In the end, though, Alberta has definitely taken a step in the right direction. Proponents of public healthcare should be hailing their achievements as vital to ensuring that the system continues to thrive, and should be criticizing Ontario for continuing to let the system slide with a political shrug.