Michael Hardner

That's pretty close to what you said. The video looked like the same person - no joke. Was the 'real' Bin Laden turned over ? Afghanistan was invaded for heroin money ? That's a new one. Those incidents are still debated. Regardless, the situation in each of these cases wasn't the same. Did you even go to 911myths.com ? There is good information there if you have an open mind...

They look pretty much the same to me.

Morris, I agree with you - but to add: if you don't like the Leafs, you're going to hell.

I don't understand why people are so positive about Bell's future. There are micro-companies out there offering voice over IP for local service at rates that Bell can't match.

Charles - Are you talking about the mayoral race in Toronto ?

After voting major parties for my entire life, my experience on these forums has forced me to admit that none of them represent my (heterogeneous) views. I want a party that manages like the Conservatives, pleases the masses like the Liberals, and cares about people as much as the NDP. I vote 'other' for now.

The fact that people don't believe in mass mind control is proof that it exists ? The confession, and the video of Bin Laden with the hijackers doesn't sway you ? You can assign a motive to the mafia, and everything they do follows logically from that. It all fits. 9/11 doesn't work that way. The 'powers that be' would never attack themselves in order to get more power. How much sense does that make ? As I have said, go to 911myths.com and you can see how 'Loose Change' and so called 'truth' videos actually contain more disinformation than any official story could. I believe it. I'm not a freemason, the system works well without me, and I didn't benefit from 911. I don't know how intelligent I am, but I knows what I knows...

It is indeed strange that otherwise lucid people fall into such things as conspiracy theories, cults and the like. But whatever makes him believe in these ideas - it's not supported by facts. The idea that a huge project like this could be planned, approved and executed is preposterous. Anybody who stood to gain, stood more to gain from the status quo - rich, well-connected, people with lots of political contacts - than from giving it an earth shaking blow and risking the loss of power.

I don't know about putting people in prison for shouting down their oponents. Wait, I do. It's a bad idea. But it doesn't bode well for social cohesion that this type of thing can happen. Nor does it bode well for the intellectual process. If those opposed to this person had a good argument, they should be able to debate him on his points. They would have done a better job by hosting a debate between this person and an opponent so that both sides could be heard. As it is, he's a victim and his right to speak was taken from him. That doesn't help the cause against his point of view - whatever it is.

Get ready for more of this type of thing to come...

None of these documentaries can come close to providing the amount of information that a debate can. The dice is loaded on all of these films. If you go to a site like 911mths.com you can find lots of counter arguments that show that the conspiracy theories are extremely flawed.

Lying ? Betsy, you're overreaching there. I still think I'm right, but that it's impossible to "prove" what's in the human heart as if it's a mathematical theorem. I'm trying to be honest here, but when you come back and accuse me of lying it's pretty tough not to walk away from this discussion. And again - individual anecdotes prove nothing at all. The term 'anecdotal evidence' is used to describe cases where people try to prove universal truths based on what happened to them. "I can prove Parisians are rude because it happened to me..." says nothing about Parisians in general, just your experience with them. My experience with Muslims convinces me that they're the same as other peoples. I can't say that that is a "proof" either. If you want to step back with me an approach this again, let's talk about what we're trying to prove... That Muslims are "different" ? ( They obviously are of a different religion, so the question is moot.) That Muslims who come here will assimilate significantly less, to the point where they harm our nation more than they help it ? ( That would be a tough one to prove. ) What is the question ?

betsy What's more of a public service than... well... a public service ? That is - a civil wedding ? I support the right of the taxi drivers to not drive booze, but the company is within its rights to demand that any new drivers they hire agree to carry booze in their cabs. And JPs who have been performing weddings throughout their careers should be allowed to decline a same-sex ceremony. Now THAT is consistent.

Hmm. Would you have more concerned if he accepted the post ? Should you have been ?

Forgive me, JS, but that's the typo of the month ! Hat Literature !!!

I admire you for trying to go by numbers, JS. If only the backwards countries of the world cared about such things. Yes, you read me right - backwards countries. I do indeed think that there are certain places that are stuck in the dark ages, but I'm not going to blame individuals for that.

I concur. WTC 7 doesn't have a definitive answer yet.

That doesn't mean that these people are unqualified either. The easy counter-point (I'll fill it in for you) is that we want the 'best' people in the job. But... Two problems persist: 1. Like hires like. 2. The community becomes stratified if one group polices another entirely. So I can accept the counter-point (which I provided) but I want to know about the problems I pointed out. How do you rectify that ? You're framing qualification in terms of these tests, but... 1. Isn't qualification a 'line in the sand' so to speak ? I would submit that 3.3 is qualification, but because there are so many white males that want to get in, they set the bar higher. I'm not saying it's fair, I'm just saying it doesn't necessarily follow that lower scores mean 'unqualified'. 2. What do these tests measure exactly ? I would imagine that an Indian woman on the force would be worth her weight in gold in being able to talk people out of certain situations, in ways that others can't. Again. Not fair, but maybe it works. The test sounds mostly valid. I'll submit, by the by, some counter problems that affirmative action does produce: 1. Backlash 2. Managing services for politics rather than results.

JS - Is this how you justify overstating your case, exaggerating and manipulating the information on your side ? Wouldn't you feel better if Canada's moderating influence brought a calming influence to this religion ? Or does the idea of moderate Muslims threaten you in some way ?

From the linked article: So that's 95% abled bodied white males hired. I support debating the merits of affirmative action policy, but let's put all the facts out there. Almost all the cops I see on the streets of Toronto are white - certainly a greater proportion than the community as a whole. Also, I've never heard anybody suggest hiring unqualified people because of their race.

Argus - do you think that the book is to blame then ? Because if it's the book, then why does the bible inspire almost no similar types of violence ?

Argus - do you think that the book is to blame then ? Because if it's the book, then why does the bible inspire almost no similar types of violence ?

Well, you're right. I can't prove that Muslims will change the same as every other race that comes here. I don't think Muslims will stop practicing their religion altogether, but that they will become Canadianized as every other religion has. But - you're right - I guess I can't prove it any more than you can prove that they won't in twenty years or so. I just don't see why one group of people will act any differently. Nothing posted here is convincing to me.

Thank you David Letterman.

This is an okay thread we have going, but too many insults usually result in a report to the mod. Just a word in your ear, there...