Posts posted by Michael Hardner
6 minutes ago, Contrarian said:
1. A productive society enables economic growth, fosters innovation, and creates opportunities for individuals to thrive. Embracing productivity aligns with the pragmatic nature of centrism, ensuring that policies and decisions are rooted in practicality and yield tangible benefits for all.
2. The main objective, as stated on the main page, is to prioritize the stability of political houses and encourage constructive critique. This stability can be achieved by fact-checking the media, politicians, and their supporters, as well as using technology to foster innovation. By maintaining stability, private individuals can operate efficiently and effectively, contributing to optimal performance and productivity. Also, use technology to film agitators in the street for awareness, the ones that cross the line. This can be used for rating purposes to increase views on the platform.
3. While no one has claimed to be a leader at this point, the focus is on identifying individuals with leadership qualities. Collaboration with political centrist forces is open, with an emphasis on incorporating radical aspects or exploring outside-the-box views.
4. I apologize for any confusion caused by the use of the term "Shadow Man." It was meant as a light-hearted joke. In addition to asking questions, it would be
The goal of the domain is to identify a political leader through open debates and discussions. They can start here to fight for this domain.
The foundation for the radical side of the platform is described in point 8 and is still a work in progress.
Okay, first of all you have to recognize that you as the founder are the principal architect, if not the leader of this thing. As such, you need to stop being so verbose and throwing out so many ideas and make something simple for us to build on. You need to communicate and lead. Don't put it on some group that doesn't even exist yet.
As such, the suggestions I gave are response to your call for mentoring. I urge you to follow them exactly as I wrote to get started.
For example, when I asked about objective you said it was on the main page. I went to the centrism site, and the page does not contain the word objective at all. Instead there's a verbose description of how the dune 2000 game could be applied to politics. Another interesting idea but not in the right place IMO.
You have to be succinct and crisp, so that new members who express an interest can understand quickly what this is all about. Nobody doesn't know you is going to read long rambling word salads full of ideas and comparisons.
As I said you need to specify the what who why and how of what the movement is.. a few sentences and bullet points each. Feature it prominently at the top or in About Us, in bold font. Then, kick off a bunch of activities wherein you can have your interesting dialogues, discussions, and idea festivals.
That is the mentorship that you need, and I'm offering it to you for free.
To respond to your criticisms about me, anybody wants mentoring, education or information about topics they can tag me directly in any post on here and I will respond.
After you respond to my advice succinctly, I will offer more. Pick one goal for the movement and put it in your About Us page...
22 minutes ago, Contrarian said:
1. which also brings about productivity and other things which people like you are not doing any work towards.
2. In my view -> You are not here to mentor, or to create threads, you are here to ask questions and collect information
3. for either your own gratification that you are better than others or for whatever interest you represent, brother.
4. ... it does not work anymore, Shadow Man.Just now, Contrarian said:
5. Yes, well, survival at the end. Don't worry about that, it won't affect you, it will be the puppy dogs underneath that you should mentor with technical help, with economic help, without the cultural nonsense. Then, you will see a light go into a human being and he might start producing.
6. That's the goal, however, the methods might not be orthodox, like me standing up to you when I should real focus on the fringes,
7. ... however, I think is more important people like you pull your weight around and mentor more. That is my sermon. If you were to mentor more, maybe more of these modern leftists would do more towards those goals of centrism.
8. I want political centrist folks with a framework to come here and present it to me, then we can collaborate and will give them the domain for free. Will change mine to the radical part.
1. What the hell are you talking about ? Productivity ? Why does Centrism care about this ? Is it a priority ? I feel like I post something and you say "nah nah nah, not CENTRIST enough". It's entirely unclear unless you write down what it is.
2. Horsesh1t. I'm indulging this project of yours, despite being unclear on what the hell it is. When I ask questions, you act like a King and say "how DARE you ask me what this is ?". Then you impugn my motives, as though I already haven't spent a lot of time indulging this thing, even taking an INTERVIEW.
Serious question: do you know how to LEAD ? Have you ever done it ? Are you ready ? Because I'm losing interest in this as a garden party without any serious intent.
3. Who is better than others - the one asking questions of the leader or the leader who refuses to answer ?
4. "Shadow man" doesn't sit for interviews. If you want to call me Shadow Man, that's fine, but I won't consider you an ally or someone whose "movement" such as it is deserves my support. I am always interested in helping people with a positive idea, but without clarity of purpose you're just filling your ego with a Contrarian centred movement, and by that I mean the person not the idea.
5. The forest of question marks grows ever thicker.
6. Stand up to me ? How are you standing up to me and why is it even necessary ?
7. Who is asking me to Mentor them ?
8. Ok here is MY advice: Start with a list of founding principles, and maybe behaviour guidelines. That is the WHY and HOW of it. Next, then an overall goal, then a series of activities. That is the WHAT of it. Present it to a group - the WHO - that you want to start with and collaborate on THAT first. I have actually been providing you suggestions in case you haven't noticed, and you haven't adopted any. That is called 'mentoring' and here I am doing it again. You need mentoring as a leader in my opinion.
So, let's recap:
1. I have been helpful and here I am offering advice, ie. mentoring, and asking questions.
2. It's incumbent on any leader to respond to people in the group.
3. Leaders do not insult people in the group and call them names they didn't ask for.
I need you to respond to this please.
8 minutes ago, Contrarian said:
Told you already political man: one important common value for this movement, my brand of centrism, should be the 'cleaner fish principle.'
which also brings about productivity and other things which people like you are not doing any work towards. You are not here to mentor, or to create threads, you are here to ask questions and collect information for either your own gratification that you are better than others or for whatever interest you represent, brother.
I would start with Innovation (like my VR Scenario, anything about that?).
- Continuous improvement
There was a time without AI when folks like you would bully people like me into submission, old political folks in the game. Not anymore, brother.
You might still get a crowd going, with angry trolls lost in space OR some <- leftists here and there, but it does not work anymore, Shadow Man.
I think that you should drop the technology angle. The Western nations may actually be damaged by technology somewhat.
You articulated: Centrism can be driven by principles such as "cleaner-fish", compromise, pragmatism, evidence-based decision-making, and a commitment to finding common ground.
Is that the list?
Do what the anarchists DON'T do, and write it down, collaborate and build a foundation.
Just now, OftenWrong said:
Really centrism is not a compromise on values but more of a calming of the values, and a form of tolerance. It takes intelligence to understand the middle, it takes will-power and effort not to be reactionary. I guess that's why you don't like it?
Okay thank you, I like this. How about instead we say it's an assertion of our common values? And an agreement to use our common institutions to pursue them?
Where are these Centrist principles you refer to? I asked you to define some but I haven't seen where they are yet.
I think 2 minutes works pretty well ...
1 hour ago, robosmith said:
Where is it proven that DRAG QUEENS are pedophiles? You are highly selective in your demands for proof. LMAO
I haven't seen any studies that show either clergy or drag queens are more likely than a control group of being predators.
That said, the latest reaction to drag queens is irrational
24 minutes ago, CdnFox said:
To be sold to the next rich person who can afford it. With a limit of housing driving prices through the roof a lot of renters today can't afford to buy.
So that leaves a severe shortage of rentals and homes are still outside the price range of most people who don't own one already. And with few people buying homes as rentals developers slow down the number of units they start. The end result is - no homes to rent and none coming down the pipe.
I'm convinced that crashing the market would have an effect on rents.
56 minutes ago, robosmith said:
Because the MAGA CULT is not the conservative Party once known as Republican. And does not have enough members to get elected.
But wouldn't the end have been in 2016? They went there.
2 hours ago, CdnFox said:
... you can't force people to rent out their places.
True, but presumably people want to get something for their ass out. Landlord to leave the market, but the residence is still there when they go.
2 hours ago, impartialobserver said:
1. The 447... wow. I may never encounter another person outside of the locals who knows that stretch.
2. Wine country starts at 90 minutes west, 4 hours to San Francisco, 5 hours to the Redwoods, 4 hours to Yosemite, Tahoe is 45 minutes, and then if you travel east (as you know) is the big wide open nothing.
1. There is something deeply affecting about the desert, and it's various forms.
2. And you're not even talking about the great things to do in town. The shows, the gold and silver for breakfast, Ethiopian restaurants, art museums. Do they still have that Kmart in sparks? I used to love that store. Hippie stores like prism clothing. Music stores with great deals. There's a music store in Sparks that sells guitars and guns, and there's a parrot in there that imitates every guitar riff you've ever heard..
Last time I went to the Denny's on peach lane, they asked us smoking or not smoking? We couldn't stop laughing.
Also the best Vietnamese restaurant I've ever eaten at, gold and flower is it? It's like somebody put an urban downtown and a suburbs in a blender
3 hours ago, Contrarian said:
⬇️ Chow’s lead slips, ⬆️ Bailao’s support jumps up: Mainstreet poll
Ana Bailao has gained ground in the race for mayor of Toronto as support for frontrunner Olivia Chow has slipped this week, according to a new poll released on Friday morning.
If the election was held today, 29 percent of decided voters would cast their ballots for Chow while 20 percent would choose Bailao.
The polls are all over the place. Bailao has been much lower in other polls too.
The renters of Toronto are being thrown into the meat grinder and they want the city to start punishing landlords and stop evictions. It will get bloody and may be the start of a class war, actually
Can you believe this? This is like saying the amount of oxygen or any other gas in the atmosphere changed by 50% in a couple hundred years. Or that the amount of water in the ocean increased by 50%. Total nonsense.
So you make a terrible analogy, then add "Total nonsense" at the end.
You have such an overpowering ego that you can't allow for the possibility that you don't understand something. It really makes me wonder how you were raised.
27 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:
My wife is a teacher and has been since 2004 so some of these issues listed in the OP are pertinent. At least in NV.. there is no CRT taught in the public school system. Or at least not explicitly. Yes, you are free to construe anything as CRT.. it happens. It is not all that different from someone claiming that you are indoctrinating them when all you did was mention the word, Bible.
Love Nevada. I have driven from Fallon to Vegas on the 95, Truckee to Utah on the I80, and Reno to Utah on the 50, as well as the 447 up to the Oregon border.
Reno is a crazy place. It literally has everything from skiing to hot desert within 45 minutes, as well as all the trappings of a big city and small town.
They should teach the kids how to play the odds, though...
4 hours ago, Contrarian said:
1. Mentorship to my point. Implement a mentorship program where members from different ideological backgrounds serve as mentors to one another. I am to assume if someone is beating at the door of radical centrism they had enough of dogma
2. ...and compromising. Why do you think I left my dogma? Do you think I will sit there and compromise with a radio host who says some words so he can brainwash me for some cash?
3. And many know this, however, due to no alternative, they compromise and go into a mob. So, if one like this had enough to be a puppy and come here, we would mentor them.
4. Yes, so how would you approach the area of political interest with a critical eye from a radical centrist view when it comes to LGBTQ+ also keeping in account the raising numbers of socially conservative immigrants and a growing number of local Christians not happy about the double standard that is being applied when certain incidents happen?
2. No. You have to learn to make deals. Dogma means never compromising and taking a war footing.
3. Politics is inseparable from a willing to compromise.
4. Ask the socially conservative what they want. Explain the system to them. Explain that others won't give them anything without something in return. Make an agreement to disagree on some things and call truce.
"What do you want ?"
"I want them to take the flag down"
"What do you want if you can't get that ?"
"I want them to stop talking about same sex couples in class ?"
"What do you want if you can't get that ?"
"There's nothing else I want."
That would result in a stalemate. If the people want to disrupt and protest until they get what they want we are out of the realm of politics and the Centrism movement has nothing to do with it.
Centrism is only for compromise. Otherwise what do you think would happen in this scenario ?
My compromise to social conservatives is they get to keep their kids home, or send them to religious or private schools.
7 minutes ago, Contrarian said:
1. Thank you. I believe that one important common value for this movement should be the 'cleaner fish principle.'
This principle signifies our commitment to uncovering and addressing issues of BIAS, inefficiency, and wrongdoing by followers or leaders within our systems. As part of this movement, one should prioritize fact-checking the media, scrutinizing manipulation tactics by followers or leaders of a certain dogma, and holding the old guard accountable for engaging in unproductive cultural wars instead of fostering mentorship and progress such as @Rebound @Hodad and others who know who they are. Are you one?!
2. Such as your idealism in LGTBQ views when the winds of social conservatism are beating from Florida to Toronto. Don't mean to make it personal, however, is important to engage in these types of discussions instead of trolling and ignoring, which achieves nothing.
1. Nice. I like it. But but but... you won't get anywhere unless there's some framework of accountability for club MEMBERS. There will be some infighting but gross examples of bias, wrongdoing or looking the other way will make your movement worse than what they're looking at.
2. Ok, you went into it somewhat. Maybe you can assign someone to facilitate development of a framework to look at areas of political interest with a critical eye. I would take LGBTQ+ for sure...
2 hours ago, Contrarian said:
1. Wait, do you believe folks that are into the political world 100% possess integrity? I know that was an irony. 😄
2.Now, not too sure.
3. Additionally, notice instances where some, representing certain left-leaning ideas, engage in cultural discussions instead of providing economic education which you have so much, I bet. Too good for the mob?!
4. I appreciate your perspective.
1. "Into" the political world ? Like us you mean ? Of course not, but that should be a stated value. As in, I value honesty but I might only be honest 99.9% of the time.
2. If you can't objectively see flaws in any political viewpoint then I'm surprised. They all have flaws.
3. I am self-taught in basic economics. The idea that you think I have so much education is a trenchant comment on the lack of general economic education. I am most conservative when it comes to economics.
4. You rejected a suggestion I made, but what about my other points: create a "movement" based on common values of people who attach themselves, perhaps by cutting/pasting a promise to follow key values that are TBD.
Maybe, given your evident adherence to*integrity, you should stick to keeping this as a *movement.
As such, you should follow what is happening in business, and IT, to create the movement around people, a core group first, values and principles... then set out to discuss and build support for the movement *as a way of looking at politics.
I would think that you would get great traction with such a strategy because both lefty and righty thinking people know that the system stinks.
It's based on shallow thinking, absence of dialogue, cult by bubbles, the mobilization of the bubbles to convince a wider tribe that the opposition is inhuman...
The system hasn't changed so much that you can't reuse it to engage people and wake them up.
But you will need to mix the new with the old.
How about you start with a rule that says within the Centrist context, you can only criticize the politics that you're closest to?
You would immediately see an entire body of political criticism that is different from anything out there.
With WestCan going after Poilievre and me going after... (I don't know, you tell me what you want me to go after) there would be something different in content.
1 hour ago, eyeball said:
It must be particularly devastating for them to be associated with Trudeau, the poor things.
Wait I thought Trudeau was a Commie?! 🤔
3 hours ago, Moonbox said:
She was a bad candidate, but 8 years of built-up resentment came to a head after Obama. I understand how/why Trump got elected, but I never understood how people could still support him after seeing him in action.
Maybe you can explain it to me one day..
For what I can tell, they didn't like how she looked in a pant suit and the way she talked.
And so they picked the most obvious grifter in American history instead.
Just because someone signs onto an ideology of extermination of whole races, LGBTQ, Roma etc... does that mean they're not reasonable people.
Thank God that the Murdoch family is thinking of the Nazis, they're really under fire these days.
2 hours ago, Contrarian said:
1. Yes, the ones that grew up in the new culture wars. I
2. Ok. I am stuck in my own definition: which a centrist works to see trends and votes to apply corrections when one side has too many scandals
3. We disagree. In which department? In reactionary politics approach or other?
1. I don't think I know any Young Liberals.
2. So, I thought this was about a new "party". As far as a "movement".... it sounds like you're talking more about independent thinking than centrism. Is that true ?
3. Other. Look at the big issues that Canada has faced: Trade, Environmental, Economic Alliances (such as the response to the 2007 crash), Diplomatic Alliances, Responses to Terrorism.... No big differences and they even support each other in votes. Let's not pretend Re: Politics is the real world where Trudeau is a Communist and Poilievre is a Nazi.
I'm starting to think your Centrism is non-alignment with major parties.
15 minutes ago, Contrarian said:
1. You tell me, do liberals of today, especially the young have any part from your view? Like the ones who post over other ideas?
2. You see your definition of liberals, I see another. The truth is somewhere in the middle :D.
3. They have a part, the debate is how much and if some of those liberals, old or new see it.
1. Young Liberals ?
2. Since Centrist is a party I refer to the Liberal PARTY.
3. I can't see how they would be much different than the Liberals as the Conservatives aren't that different, policy wise.
Can a dynamic, relevant centrist movement emerge in a polarized Canada? Based on a media article from a random source
in Federal Politics
Okay, I just find it strange that you have this sort of movement you're passionate about, and you don't want to impose your own design on it. I guess there's nothing wrong with that.
What I said to Often Wrong. Goal:
Centrist is a Political Group dedicated to asserting our collective values through words and actions - values including unity, pragmatism, equality and improvement of the commons.