betsy

So the answer is yes then. And you bristle at being called anti-gay? Look in the mirror betsy, you have an anti-gay agenda. Here is something that may jog your memory, Gerryhatrick....I am quoting your reply when you were accused for having hate views against the CPC. QUOTE Same in your view because your view is hatred and bile for the CPC regardelss of what they actually do. This fragment makes no sense. I can understand you think I have "hatred" for the CPC. It's usually the same pattern with a rightwinger...accuse critisism as being "hatred".http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5027 You keep accusing my criticism of EGALE as to mean that I am anti-gay or I have hatred for all gays. I can easily say to you , "It's usually the same pattern with a LEFTwinger...accuse critisism as being "hatred"." As you said..."this fragment makes no sense." I agree with you. That's why it's senseless for us to continue on this line of so-called "discussion."

Obviously Alberta is doing something good. Other provinces ought to take a closer look and learn from it.

I was too young to remember the crisis involving Cuba when apparently Americans prepared for the worse and even had make-shift bunkers. I recall though, the anxiety felt during the time of the Soviet Union and the anticipation of a nuclear war. But I do worry about Iran. I think the concern now is far much greater than any of those fears that were felt before. What should be the new government's stance on this matter?

Plotting to murder and hiring a killer, aren't those serious crimes? Didn't the plotting occur in Canada? The parents are the "masterminds" in this criminal scheme...they are either more guilty of the crime, if not equal to that of the killer who did the actual killing. That the two countries are connected by a murder involving citizens of both countries, should there not be a justifiable and legal reason under international law for criminal investigators to gain access and conduct an investigation in India? India is not a hostile country, and don't we provide foreign aid to this? If there is a reluctance on India's part, then diplomacy may be the key...diplomatic application of pressure.

If you don't know the ages of people at a LGBT youth group, then how are you able to make assumptions about them? Obviously your ignorance extends so far as to think an 80 year old might be at a youth group, so that provides some hint of your logical analysis here. Your cited portion does not indicate that EGALE wants 14 and 15 year olds to be able to have sex with adults, btw. When you have a real basis for your assumptions try again. Gerryhatrick and YankAbroad, You just twist and turn...and that's not really a discussion. Unless you can discuss...refute sensibly with something to back you up, then I will not go any further either. Let's connect again when we can sensibly have a constructive discussion.

Where in thier statement does it say they want 14 and 15 year olds to be able to have sex with adults, exactly? Right here. CONCERN #3: INABILITY TO DATE PEERS LGBT youth groups provide vital support to young people struggling with their sexuality. Many LGBT youth come out at LGBT youth groups or other places where LGBT people meet. Even at a youth group they are likely to encounter people who are more than two years older than them, beyond the current “close-in-age” exception. To criminalize the primarily healthy sexual relations that ensue seems perverse, furthering the marginalization of LGBT youth. It is also possible that the youth groups themselves will fear being open to those under 16, causing them to make rules to exclude them. The harm done in cutting off access to this vital resource would be substantial. Whatever the age of consent is, the Government may wish to consider increasing the window for the “close-in-age” exception ------------------ LGBT youth....their ages range from what? 12, 13, 14, 15? What about this so-called "more than two years older than them, beyond the current close-in-age exception" Just how far beyond is their meaning of "beyond?" That could mean just about any older age! It can even include 80 year olds!

Let me ask you a question. Do you think homosexuals want to have sex with children? Obviously you have not been reading and following the discussion. I've made my stance on that. Scroll back and read. I'm not gonna make it easy for you. Do your homework. Fair is fair.

So I didn't know specific gay groups by name. Actually I consider that a plus-point for me. Just shows you I never really followed the Gay Rights Movement until I stumbled on NAMBLA. So if you want to show that I'm a fanatic hell-bent against anything gay....you, yourself just proved I'm not what you want to paint me to be. I never claimed that I was an expert. Obviously you thought I was...at some point. Fooled you huh? Hey, don't blame me for your own mistake. Hopefully you'll twig on EGALE as fast as you twigged on me.

Why not talk about minding your own business? If you spend more time actually reaching out to troubled children, and less time trying to "protect" them through big government bureaucracy, you'd actually be helping people. But I get the idea it's less about protecting people for you, and more about getting people who you don't like under the guise of protecting others. Since you like to make personal potshots, I guess fair is fair. So tell me, why so defensive of EGALE?

Pardon me, but I would like to think that bluntly stating "EGALE is full of b.s." is more than just an innuendo. Continuously and deliberately twisting and putting words in my post is not what I would call "honesty put forth." You say "debate in good faith." Well I say that you ought to. So far my blunt statement and questioning of EGALE's motives have been backed up...whether you approve of the sources or not....the fact remains that I have more than just plain personal opinion to stand on. You have none.

Larry Spencer From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search Larry Spencer is a Baptist pastor in Canada, and former Member of Parliament (MP) for the Saskatchewan riding of Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre. He was first elected as candidate of Canadian Alliance in the 2000 federal election. He was appointed family issues critic for the CA caucus, but was later suspended from the caucus for his controversial remorks. When the CA merged into the new Conservative Party of Canada, he did not join the caucus of the new party, and thus became an independent. He sought re-election in the 2004 federal election as an independent conservative, but lost. In late November 2003, Spencer caused controversy in Canada by Vancouver Sun reporter Peter O'Neil when he said that he would support any initiative to outlaw homosexuality. He stated that in the 1960s, a "well-orchestrated" conspiracy began and led to recent successes in the gay rights movement. This conspiracy, he further said, included seducing and recruiting young boys in playgrounds and locker rooms, and deliberately infiltrating North America's schools, judiciaries, entertainment industries, and religious communities. According to him, this conspiracy started with a speech given by a U.S. gay rights activist in the 1960s whose name he could not remember. As a result of his comments, Spencer was stripped of his job as family issues critic by Canadian Alliance leader Stephen Harper on November 27, 2003. He also temporarily removed himself from the party's caucus, and apologized "completely and without reservation" for his remarks.

Don't you mean, Canada is officially a bilingual country but not a bilingual country in practice? And why would Betsy care how many of the new Liberal MPs are bilingual? What difference does that make? They're backbenchers! People in this forum, I tell ya... My question stemmed from Mike Duffy about Belinda Stronach getting stumped by a journalist who asked a question in French. They were talking about the Liberal "new blood" that may vy for the role of opposition leader.

I thought there's a new requirement for civil servants to become bilingual.

Try reacting without fear and bias to the entire topic, Gerryhatrick. Your entire rebutt consists only of lame accusations that I'm anti-gay and a bigot....which, as you all probably notice I don't care a hoot about coming from the outraged supporter of EGALE and company. It's a pointless exercise that only demonstrates that either... you're terribly naive..... or .......you absolutely endorse the disgusting scenario EGALE wants us to accept.

And there it is folks! I knew it wouldn't take long for the obligatory allignment of homosexuals to a pedophile organization! Betsy has found some similarities in introductions! RUN!!! Try reacting without fear or bias to the entire article betsy, not just some "introduction", and don't go running over to NAMBLA to seek out similarities. It's a pointless exercise that only demonstrates your anti-gay stripes. Can't you add anything sensibly informative other than say I'm anti-gay?

Be thankful for having nice parents YankAbroad. But we're not talking about you. We are talking about others. Others who may not have been as lucky as you. Others who are confused....just like the LGBT youth members that EGALE had been talking about. Especially the LGBT youth members. Just think....if they are confused and struggling with their sexuality, chances are these youth members are not the kind who are most likely to open up to their parents to talk about it. That alone leaves them much more vulnerable than others. And in the state of mind they're in, they'll be putty in the hands of anyone who'd take the notion to exploit, abuse and corrupt them.

Haven't you noticed? We're way past the "introduction" line, Gerryhatrick! Kindly read. It's like jumping into the fray kicking and swinging away without knowing what the fray is all about.

You got that right. Starting with LGBT youths' rights from being manipulated, exploited and corrupted!

If a civil servant has to be bilingual, then a Prime Minister must be. How many among the "new blood" of the Liberal Party are bilingual?

Oh yeah? Didn't he do a good blitz on Iraq for 4 days....coincidentally right around the time of the Monica scandal? At least, Bush was doing a tit for tat. Clinton's was just an attempt at distraction from his sleazy domestic scandal. When it suits em, Iraquis can be quite expendable.

Did any of those named above actually used the Oval Office? Btw, was Monica actually under the desk when she did it?

I'd like you to define the two. My dad used to "spank" me with a short piece of plastic pipe. Where does that fall, spanking or beating. This is a very slippery slope. A swat on the behind is one thing, but using objects to spank are akin to beating. My mom was the spanker in the family. Her favorite weapon of choice was the almighty slipper! Only on the behind. My dad spanked me only once in my life (his slipper)...and it was not even my fault! My brother who is 15 years older than me had misunderstood a scenario entirely that involved a corner store (something like a Mac's Milk here). After learning that I got into trouble with my dad, the old lady who owned the store came to him and told him that she voluntarily gave me the soda pop for free! Inspite of those spankings, I hold so many treasured memories of them. I am blessed to have such wonderful parents. My husband's aunt (who babysat them) wielded the wooden spoon! I guess I prefer the slipper. This aunt btw is always spoke of with affection. The wooden spoon had become a source of nostalgic humor. But true, nowadays bare hand is better.

"CONCERN #4: EMPOWERING YOUTH EGALE believes that it is a good thing to increase a person’s ability to consent, and to maximise young people’s confidence and ability to withhold consent. Doing so empowers youth, increases their autonomy and affirms their sexuality and sense of self. Education regarding safe sex must be supported, to minimize health risks for those youth that do engage in sexual activity. In addition, sex education should include real life information about how to decide whether, when and how to have sex, as well as how to be assertive in standing by those choices." ----------------------- It's well and good to have these positive wishful thoughts....but realistically, EGALE is just full of b.s.! How can EGALE talk about this with a straight face when they know that there is evidence in their OWN TURF that education is not enough! Have we not spent so much $$ educating people about safe sex? Have we not spent so much $$ promoting safe sex? Have we not spent so much $$ providing tools for safe sex? Well? Then I'd like to hear from EGALE why do we have this? HIV on the rise in Ontario immigrants, gay men Updated Tue. Jan. 31 2006 6:27 AM ET CTV.ca News Staff Despite education campaigns and increasing collective knowledge of the causes and effects of HIV, it continues to spread, and in Ontario the rise is especially alarming. Over the past five years the incidence of HIV in Ontario has increased by 37 per cent, with an average annual increase of about six per cent, according to new figures by Dr. Robert Remis, a University of Toronto professor who heads up the Ontario HIV Epidemiologic Monitoring Unit. The incidence of HIV among gay men is also alarming, said Remis. His findings indicate there have been 3,800 new cases of HIV among gay men in the past five years, representing a 28 per cent increase. Remis attributes this increase to several factors. A chief cause, he believes, is that many gay men are experiencing "safe-sex fatigue," and they're simply tired of being bombarded with the safe-sex message. "Gay men have been hearing this message now for going on 25 years, and it's very difficult to maintain these kinds of behaviours," Remis said. "I think the bottom line is this is a big epidemic. It's a major public health challenge for Ontario and for Canada as a whole," Remis said. http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...0131?hub=Health

CONCERN #4: EMPOWERING YOUTH EGALE believes that it is a good thing to increase a person’s ability to consent, and to maximise young people’s confidence and ability to withhold consent. Doing so empowers youth, increases their autonomy and affirms their sexuality and sense of self. If this government is serious about protecting youth, then regardless of whether the age of consent is raised, it will empower youth by giving them the tools they need to make informed choices. We should help youth to develop confidence, communication skills, to negotiate their sexual lives and prevent abuses of power. Such youth are not only more able to make informed choices about whether to have sex, but, if they do choose to have sex, they are more likely to be safe. Education regarding safe sex must be supported, to minimize health risks for those youth that do engage in sexual activity. In addition, sex education should include real life information about how to decide whether, when and how to have sex, as well as how to be assertive in standing by those choices. EGALE is concerned that raising the age of consent will have the opposite impact on education, and that school boards will discourage discussions of sexual relations which the law deems criminal. As the Ontario Court of Appeal recognized in the context of the higher age of consent for anal intercourse in R v. M ©, (1995) 23 O.R. (3d) 629, per Abella J. at 638: “Health risks ought to be dealt with by the health care system. Ironically, one of the bizarre effects of a provision criminalizing consensual anal intercourse for adolescents is that the health education they should be receiving to protect them from avoidable harm may be curtailed, since it may be interpreted as counselling young people about a form of sexual conduct the law prohibits them from participating in. Hence, the Criminal Code provision ostensibly crafted to prevent adolescents from harm may itself, by inhibiting education about health risks associated with that behaviour, contribute to the harm it seeks to reduce.” http://www.egale.ca/index.asp?lang=E&menu=37&item=348 --------------------------- You gotta love this. "If this government is serious about protecting youth, then regardless of whether the age of consent is raised, it will empower youth by giving them the tools they need to make informed choices. We should help youth to develop confidence, communication skills, to negotiate their sexual lives and prevent abuses of power. Such youth are not only more able to make informed choices about whether to have sex, but, if they do choose to have sex, they are more likely to be safe. Education regarding safe sex must be supported, to minimize health risks for those youth that do engage in sexual activity. In addition, sex education should include real life information about how to decide whether, when and how to have sex, as well as how to be assertive in standing by those choices." I mean, doesn't this make you feel so good and fuzzy? Well, I'll buy that! And Liberal-thinkers will surely lap that up! As caring individuals, especially those focused on the welfare of the young, this kind of message is what we all want to hear. Then EGALE softly throws this: "EGALE is concerned that raising the age of consent will have the opposite impact on education, and that school boards will discourage discussions of sexual relations which the law deems criminal."

BTW, does LGBT Youth Support Group have a world-wide gathering or sort of convention? You know, so these confused LGBT kids will have all the positive benefits of mingling with caring adults from all over the world? Gross, I keep thinking of the word dinner "buffet."