betsy

I'm all for finding resolution and solving the Native issues. Without hurting or disrupting the lives of innocent people.

Native Charm, Your insults towards those who oppose your views had been practically non-stop the moment you joined this thread. And your spew had intensified dramatically after my post explaining how your antcs are being interpreted by moi, and possibly by the rest of Canada. Therefore, I can only assume that my statements had really stepped on a nerve....and the truth (which you actually acknowledge), BUT don't want to be reminded of. As I've said before....you can spin it all, left and right and up and down, every which way you want to, and you can bring up all the past and dig up all the ghosts and use up all the usual ace cards (particularly that one called "racism" since you know the mentality today usually caves in the moment you wave that no-fail winner)....but still, your protest only boils down to one simple thing: THIS PROTEST IS VICTIMIZING INNOCENT PEOPLE. The Native people are far from being the "underdog" in this issue. It's the people of Caledonia. And ordinary folks identify, empathize and symphatize with them! These ordinary folks may not be doing anything right now other than reading and shaking their heads.....but they can be saying a lot when it comes to casting their ballots! Mentality can change just like governments can change....or vice versa. For someone allegedly weaseling out...I actually stood by my views on how I regard this terrorist tactic in more than one post. How you could've come up with that conclusion that I'm weaseling out from that is beyond me! Btw, I've never claimed to be intelligent or anything on this board. You could say I represent the "masses" mentality....not the intellectuals such as yourself (or those who have the silly illusions that they are). And for me to harbor such views must be a telling sign how the regular folks all over Canada view your misplaced little protest. Nothing more than a form of extortion and terrorism...that's costing not only Caledonia some money and grief....but also wasting our tax-payers' money. Speaking of this board, it is quite a decent board, if you hadn't noticed since blind anger must've clouded even your perception (which is understandable since we're talking of an issue that is highly ignitable), besides just like me, you are quite passionate too. However, hardly anyone here uses gutter language and downright racist remarks in defending or shutting down any dissenting views. One of the utmost goals I think is keeping this board from going trashy. It will be to your best interest if you check out the forum rules.

No, I don't mean you personally.....unless you're one of them participating in that blockade. I agree with you, Riverwind....racism begets racism.

The irony is, now those behaviours by the Caledonians towards you (if your statement is accurate) is quite understandable. I would be p***ed off too (to put it mildly) and be swearing worse than a sailor at the ones who's hurting my livelihood, causing me all these aggravation and inconveniences. Especially when I don't have anything at all to do with their freakin' problem! Of course they're lashing back at you. Know what? That's part of human nature.

ME? Listen sweetheart, be careful before you start trying to label me as a terrorist in my own fucking country, cause I will hunt you down and bannock slap your pink ass!!!! Seems to me like you many of "you's in here" have a beef with the Natives that have land entitlements and don't pay taxes...AND you're discriminating to those of us that do PAY taxes. You too may have a legitimate reason to be angry, but you can't disrespect a Nation of peoples that is simply defending what is theirs. I assume Caledonia would be doing the same. As far as bad guys, you're only trying to paint black kettles. There is more than an ample amount of evidence that clearly demonstrates the ongoing rasicm, hate crimes, DRUNK behaviour, public disorder and COMPLETE DISREGARD FOR THE LAW...by Caledonia Residents. Apparently Caledonia has a real beef to, that they too should be directing at the government. But it seems like the folks were just WAITING for another reason to hate the "Indians". And to answer your answer question, on why they should have to put up with it. Well it's simple. Their living on land that isn't theirs. In fact, it's almost like they live in another country. They should be asking their mayors and leaders for historical data and EXPLANATIONS on WHY they were allowed to set up on homestead on someone elses land..INSTEAD of asking the government for violence and a fucking handout that my hard earned taxes have to pay for!!! Next time, Betsy, can you please keep your statements and questions on a more intelligent level, keep up with the crowd will ya? Read and understand, Native Charm. Don't let all your misplaced anger get the better of you. The land may be yours....or not. The problem is still between you and the government. The residents of Caledonia are the victims here. It all boils down to that simple fact. You may not see it that way....but I'm sure other Canadians following the incidents are looking at your antics in a very different light. Yes, for some (like me)....I can't help but equate the situation to terrorism! Too bad...but that's the way I see it. And I don't like the idea that it's being done in my own country! And that some of my innocent countrymen are needlessly suffering. These are some of the emotions this issue is evoking to other bystanders like me as we watch the scene unfold! I put myself in their shoes. That's why I'm saying, this is only hurting your cause. At another time and another place, perhaps I would've understood and emphatized with you. But not on this one. And Caledonia does not have to put pressure on the government and carry your torch for you...as a trade off for them to have their normal lives back. If you want to protest....you can have your protest, without having to hurt anyone.

August, since you had provided the links anyway....you could've shortened the excerpts.

Concerns may have been expressed, but that hardly seems like a valid reason to shut down. Having an employee who is gay doesn't mean it is promoting a gay lifestyle or funding something they consider to be a sin. I expect there will be reasons behind shutting it down other than simply having a gay employee. I agree that it does not necessarily mean promoting it....but this employee (and his sexual orientation) had become very high profile. And this is a Christian camp. Not to mention there has been some gay issues or related issues dogging Christendom (from pedophilia to SSM), so the timing has something to do with it too. Further more, the camp is catering to children...who are bound to be asking questions...awkward questions that could raise conflicts and confusions. I see the point there. And maybe closing down is much simpler than firing him.

Well, whether your rationale is right or wrong....it still does not justify your actions. Your beef is with the government. You're taking your frustrations out on residents who have nothing to do with your problems. You've practically hijacked a town and crippled its businesses (not to mention the aggravation and inconveniences on the residents) in your attempt to get your own way. In gangsta world, this is similar to extortion. In current global stituations...this is terrorism. You may have a legitimate reason to be angry....but you're whipping the wrong folks. Why should they have to put up with it? So you can't blame others living outside of Caledonia to emphatize with what those residents are going through. Of course, the sympathy goes to them. And that's hurting your cause....because you're looking like the bad guys.

Isn't Knights Of Columbus a Christian organization? What's wrong if they did pulled funding from the camp based on concern for being accused of promoting a different lifestyle? That is putting it mildly....I guess they are concerned too about being branded "bigots"....for as a Christian group, why should they fund something that is considered a sin and forbidden in our faith? Talk about freedom of religion! This is one example why no matter how much the government reassures us that SSM will not be imposed on religious groups...I say, Baloney to that! No matter what, gay activists are going to erode anything and everything that do not accept their lifestyles as "normal". Christian groups are putty in the hands of any liberal-minded activist!

Terrorism not only kill innocent lives. Its aim is to destabilize its target government, and wreak economic problems. We've seen how airlines suffer right after the 9/11. Countries depending on tourism paid the price as well. Terrorism and Environmental problems (which could possibly be not man-made at all) - both have sweeping wide effects. Terrorism's effect, however is more immediate....and causes a far more devastating ripple effect.

Why, do you think battering or any other types of domestic violence do not happen to gay or lesbian relationships? "Until fairly recently, violence in lesbian relationships has been a taboo subject and one best kept "behind closed doors." Only in the recent past have women begun to name and discuss their abusive relationships. One reason is that, until recently, abuse has been hidden. However, additional factors have made it more difficult for lesbians to discuss abuse in their relationships." http://www.womensweb.ca/violence/dv/lesbian.php "How domestic violence in lesbian, bi and gay relationships is the same as in heterosexual relationships" http://msu.edu/~cdaadmin/lesbian,_bi,_and_gays.htm

I don't want to get into a scriptural argument, but these are Jesus' words. For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; but if you do not forgive men their trespasses neither will your father forgive your trespasses. Matthew 6:14-15 If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him; and if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times saying ‘I repent’, forgive him. Luke 17:3-4 So also my heavenly Father will do to you if you do not forgive your brother from your heart. Matthew 18:35 But how can I forgive someone who had done nothing against me? Homosexuality is not something done against me. It is between the gay and God. I am merely explaining that believing and following the teachings of our faith does not mean I hate the sinner personally. Stating and reminding about it being a sin in our faith is a form of "rebuking", don't you think so? Anymore stronger than that and I could be facing the hate-crime law.

Enskat, you claim about the inaccuracies of the media. But do we have any guarantee that the videos shown were not staged, edited or inaccurate as well? I saw silhouettes of people...are those supposed to be the Caledonians? or the Natives? How do we know this video was not done just so to contradict and "demonize" the news clips that really is damaging to your cause. Where is the proof that the videos were not "doctored." And what about the "imported" goons from Toronto (a motley crew of various groups)...who apparently were the ones who caused the violence? Are you not aware of that? Check my post with the excerpts from Western Standard.

Being a true Christian in every sense of the word is a tremenduous struggle to achieve, for it is so easy to stray from the straight and narrow. No one is perfect. We all sin. When we want to suit our own needs, and have things go the way we want to, or the way we think they should....do we invoke His name and His teachings to contradict His own? Do we assume that God changes with the times? That His book's interpretation ought to follow political correctness? Modernization? Believing that homosexuality is un-natural and forbidden (the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha is one referral to that), is merely believing in and following the teachings of our faith. It is the act. Not the person. We all have our own crosses to bear...our own trials in life. But it is not for any of us to forgive. It is God's.

Now I hear somebody's threatening to block train tracks. Anybody heard about this? Is this true?

I don't know much about Nelson Mandela...but wasn't his wife involved in corruption and some murder of opposition?

Perhaps you guys should try to help dogs and cats and other animals here in Canada first before you go meddling into someone else's turf and dictating about their cultures! Sorry, but animal rights group had lost some credibility....thanks to zealots who'd gone as far as providing inaccurate and deliberately misleading information and video footage for press releases! Use the donation you get to help fund animal shelters and help find caring homes for them. You can also get some vets to go town to town to give free spaying and neutering...thereby, preventing a lot of unwanted animals!

But it sure did hurt the tax-payers' coffers. Like as if we just pick money off trees! How many travellers avoided going anywhere near Caledonia just for the sheer inconvenience of it, I wonder....not to mention trying to steer clear of getting caught in any form of violence. I can't help whining as a taxpayer when I see money going to waste for what - paying for DAMAGES. That cool tune of 1 million dollars could've gone to infuse some deserving and struggling social program - perhaps, even Alcoholics Anonymous - which can then treat both Natives and Caledonians. Sorry, but I find the tone of nonchalance quite infuriating.

The numbers of charges laid against Native people country wide does not support the assumption that they repeatedly break the laws and got away with it. Posters in your camp say the numers of Native people in jail are disproportionate, then go right into the argument that Natives are getting away with crime? So............... Which is it? Blockades have been done repeatedly in years. This Caledonia blockade is against the law.....except that the law enforcers are not enforcing it.

I've got the June 19 issue of Western Standard in my hand right now...and unfortunately, I cannot find the same article online to give as a link. Here is an excerpt from the article. The title of the article is "Crashing It In Caledonia" by Kevin Steel. "How a hodge-podge of radical Toronto groups ended up hijacking the land-claims stand-off - and the Six Nations message." On Sunday, May 21, as the Six Nations leadership agreed to take down the barricade in a gesture of goodwill, six buses filled with 300 angry protesters rolled into Caledonia. Word spread around town that they were reinforcements for the natives. From the start, it was clear they came for a fight and the situation escalated as the newcomers began physically confronting theCaledonia residents. What was unusual about the 300 arrivals is that they were representatives of eight Toronto groups, all almost entirely disconnected from anything to do with native issues. The pilgrimage to Caledonia was organized by the Al-Awda Palestine Right To Return Coalition, the University of Toronto's Arab Students Collective, the "anti-capitalist" (their term) Ontario Coalition Against Poverty, Ryerson University's CKLN community radio, the CUPE Local 3903, and the pro-immigration group No One Is Illegal. Explaining the varied groups' interest, Zainab Amadahy, speaking for the eight group, the Coalition in Support of Indigenous Sovereignty-Indigenous Caucus, says all parties share "a commitment to support the Six Nation land reclamation...They support in a general way social justice, and [also] in a global way." Janice Switlo, a Vancouver native lawyer advising the council of hereditary chiefs of the Six Nations says the groups came at the behest of radicals within the community. Native journalist Kahentinetha Horn, a reporter for Mohawk Nation News, had been issuing what Switlo calls "very provocative press releases and statements on the Internet" about the stand-off, encouraging a broader conflict, though she hadn't been asked by Six Nations leaders to speak on their behalf. "The language that she used was quite inciting and inflammatory, and appeared in my professional judgment to be encouraging a confrontation," Switlo says. ----- The plot thickens.

Understandable. Just like an ex-smoker tends to be very anti-smoking more than anyone else. Or someone who decided to become vegetarian....and now can't stand even the smell of meat.

The burden of proof lies on whose shoulders? If CSIS....or an overseas intelligence bureau (country of origin) says this applicant was involved in such and such....it is up to the applicant to provide unquestionable proof they are wrong. Then again, let's say as an example China demands the extradition of their most wanted criminal...or else they'll break off any diplomatic ties and business dealings with Canada...are we prepared to wrangle losing billions of dollars (affecting countless business ventures and revenues of Canadian companies, including countless jobs involved) over a crook? Who's not even a citizen of Canada?

I understand the intent to imprison them is to prevent any more crimes being repeated. But these are not Canadian citizens....and they did the crime elsewhere. Why should we burden ourselves with the expenses of incarcerating these individuals? Wouldn't the most practical and easiest thing to do is to simply say, "sorry. bye."

Inaction and indeciveness of the Premier can cause further violence if the citizens loose faith and decide to take matters into their own hands. This might spark vigilante-ism.

Well the latest news today, the government bought the land in dispute from the realtor in Caledonia....but I don't know if they intend to give it to Six Nations.