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betsy last won the day on September 2 2021

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  1. Russia withdrawing soldiers from Kharkiv.   As someone wondered at the other forum - is this move ominous?  Could there be a nuclear strike?

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    2. sharkman


      One day you will realize, it’s ALL propaganda.  The actual truth, these days, comes out later or not at all.  Just like the truth about Covid vaccines is only now coming out…

    3. betsy




      You my friend, have your eyes closed.


      Corruption is widespread in Ukrainian society.[1][2] In 2012 Ernst & Young put Ukraine among the three most-corrupt nations from 43 surveyed—alongside Colombia and Brazil.[3][4] In 2015 The Guardian called Ukraine "the most corrupt nation in Europe".[5] According to a poll conducted by Ernst & Young in 2017, experts considered Ukraine to be the ninth-most corrupt nation from 53 surveyed.[6] According to Transparency International's 2021 Corruption Perceptions Index, (a scale of least to most corrupt nations), Ukraine ranked 122nd out of 180 countries in 2021, the second most corrupt in Europe, with Russia the most at 136.[7]

      United States diplomats described Ukraine under Presidents Kuchma (in office from 1994 to 2005) and Yushchenko (in office from 2005 to 2010) as a kleptocracy, according to WikiLeaks cables.[8]





      Why isn’t Ukraine a NATO member already?

      “The feeling was, and probably still has been, that Ukraine hadn’t completely taken care of political corruption, that it was still developing its democracy,” Stanley Sloan, an expert in transatlantic relations at Middlebury College and a former international security officer, told McClatchy. “So there were some formal reasons why the Alliance could say that Ukraine was not ready yet to join the Alliance.”

      Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/article258774458.html#storylink=cpy

    4. Boges


      If Ukraine was made a NATO member, a war with Russia would have been started because of the annexation of Crimea due to Article 5. 

      You guys fall for the Putin talking point on Ukraine corruption. There was a violent overthrow of the Putin Puppet in charge of Ukraine in 2014. That's when the country was the most corrupt. 

      They have since elected a leader they wanted. This is why Ukraine's success is not in the interest in Russia. And the country has rallied around that leader to defend their homeland. 

      What could be more inline with the values of the West than protecting an independent democracy against invasion. 

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