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blackbird

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Posts posted by blackbird

  1. 14 hours ago, H B Lowrey said:

    A youtube vid will settle this once and for all.  I don't "believe" it matters, having grown up in the christian faith.  Follow the example anyway.  Not the bible.  Not what someone else wrote about what he said.  Watch what he did and who he hung with.  If you don't get it, ya just don't get it and you're attempting to rationalize yourself into some other perceptual reality.  We just saw jackasses doing that last MLK day.

    Moot distractive conversation.

    Do we believe in Elvis?

     

    Someone wrote about him.  He had a fan club.  There have been many.  

     

     

    The fact that Jesus lived is not even questioned by people who know anything about history.  The fact he existed is recorded by secular historians like Josephus who recorded it around that time 2000 years ago.  It's easy to Google this subject and learn more.  The Biblical accounts in the four gospels written by four different writers, some in different years, are absolutely credible.  The way the are written lends more credibility to their accounts.  We have lots of skeptics and naysayers who have not really studied this weighing in on it.  

  2. 34 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

    What ?  Climate Change ?  Total side drift...

    No a single event on that scale has a miniscule effect on climate.

    And again I don't care about the god question sorry.

    Don't forget Roman Catholicism won't save you either.  Do you think you are safe because you are a RC and can ignore the subject of God?  It is largely based on inventions of men rather than the Bible for the purpose of increasing the control by Rome.  Why do you think they teach salvation comes through the church's sacraments administered by the priests?  This is contrary to the Bible which teaches salvation is strictly by faith through grace.  Not to mention the idolatry of Mary worship and praying to saints, etc.

  3. There is lots of evidence of God performing miracles recorded in the Bible.  These were recorded by eye witnesses or passed on from eye witnesses to those who kept a record.  Eye witnesses are given paramount importance in courts of law.  Why not when they are recorded in the Bible?

    http://www.graspinggod.com/support-files/list_of_old_testament_miracles.pdf

  4. 6 minutes ago, eyeball said:

    No, it was about mobile chemical warfare labs and WMD's. You've forgotten the comic books Colin Powell produced as evidence?

    It's not surprising in the least actually.

    The WMDs was the pretext the Americans used to go into Iraq but the war itself was part of the war on terror started by the 9-11 attack on America.  If it had been just about getting rid of WMDs the Americans would not have stayed in Iraq for years.  They would have left right away because there was no WMDs in Iraq.  But when the American landed in Iraq, thousands of al Qaida terrorists from all over the middle east travelled there to fight the Americans.  As a result the war on terrorism continued in Iraq for years.

  5. 14 hours ago, West said:

    In your opinion, which has been the largest politically driven scams in our history?

    1. Y2K

    2. Iraq War

    3 Trump/Russia collusion

    4. Covid

    5. Other

    The Trump - Russia collusion thing was debunked by the investigation long ago.  Wasted millions of dollars investigating it and found nothing.  Where have you been hiding? 

  6. 14 hours ago, eyeball said:

    In living memory? The Invasion of Iraq hands down.  In fact I would argue that the encouragement to suspend disbelief in the absence of evidence then is largely responsible for the capacity to do so today.

    The Iraq war was not a scam.  Were you aware that al Qaida terrorists travelled to Iraq by the thousands from all over the middle east when the Americans were there for the sole purpose of fighting the American great Satan.  al Qaeda is just a branch of ISIS.   Who do you think the Americans were fighting against in Iraq?   Have you heard of the war against terrorism after 9-11?  That was what the war in Iraq was all about.  Surprising how widespread ignorance is on the subject of the Iraq war.

  7. 8 hours ago, H B Lowrey said:

    Grew up in the church.  Got that version, yeah.  Mom was the church choir director and pianist, Gma was the church organist.  Grew up singing in the choir.  Bible school, retreats, all a that.  Both protestant and catholic, straddled that silly fence.  Was that it then?  You want me to read the bible and agree with you?

    Your experiences gave you a taste of religion but perhaps you never were properly taught the truth of the Bible.  I don't know what your knowledge of the Bible was or what you believed then or now.

    See my comment about the history and accounts in the Bible of God's miraculous power.  Whether you agree or not doesn't change the fact that countless miracles and events are recorded in the Bible adding to it's authenticity as coming from God.

    The simple fact is a complex universe required an intelligent designer.  Complex things which operate under complex physical laws do not just happen themselves.  They require intelligence behind them.

  8. 5 hours ago, Colin Norris said:

    In fact the bible was written about 60 years after the death of Christ. 

    There was no God as you know it for  1500 years before Christ nor did anyone witness any power of God.  That is a complete myth as there has never been a God evidenced since the beginning of time.  That's a fact  unless you are the only one with evidence to contradict that. 

     

    Quote The Old Testament contains 39 (Protestant), 46 (Catholic), or more (Orthodox and other) books, divided, very broadly, into the Pentateuch (Torah), the historical books, the "wisdom" books and the prophets.[4]  Unquote - Wikipedia 

    The account given in Genesis, the first book of the Bible, gives an account of the creation of everything including Adam and Eve, the first humans about six thousand years ago.  The first five books of the Bible were written by Moses, who lived about 1570 B.C. or 3,570 years ago.  Moses was sent by God to bring the nation of Israel out of slavery of Egypt 1,491 B.C. or 3,491 years ago.  The Jews still celebrate the Passover, which took place in Egypt about 1,491 B.C. or 3,491 years ago shortly before the Israelites were led out of Egypt by Moses.  Exodus tells how God performed many miracles to force the Pharoah to let the Israelites leave Egypt under the leadership of Moses.  The Passover is strong evidence that the account of the Israelite' captivity and God using Moses to bring them out of captivity in Egypt actually happened as described in Exodus, the second book of the Bible.  The fact the Jews still celebrate the Passover today means it actually occurred as recorded in the Bible.  The Old Testament was written over a period of 1,200  years beginning about 3,570 years ago and completed about 400 B.C. or 2,400 years ago.  It was accurately copied and handed down through the ages by the Jewish scribes who were very meticulous in copying and caring for it.  

    The Old Testament has many events demonstrating the miraculous power of God.  One would have to read it to find out.  This website gives a long list of miracles God performed:

    Miracles in the Old Testament - Bible History (bible-history.com)

    This site gives a timeline of the Old Testament.

    What is the basic timeline of the Old Testament? (compellingtruth.org)

    Quote 

    The original Passover, found in the Bible, is a memorial to God passing over the houses of the children of Israel when He killed the firstborn of man and beast in Egypt. This miraculous event and its meaning occurred during the night of the fourteenth of the Hebrew month Nisan. It is not a memorial of the Israelites' exodus out of Egypt.

    'On that night I will go through the land of Egypt, killing every first-born male, both human and animal, and punishing all the gods of Egypt. I am the Lord. The blood on the doorposts will be a sign to mark the houses in which you live. When I see the blood, I will PASS OVER (from where we get the term Passover) you . . . (Exodus 12)   Unquote

    The New Testament was completed by about 90 A.D. by the apostles and prophets who were eyewitnesses of the resurrected Christ or had direct knowledge from eyewitnesses of Christ themselves.  You mentioned the figure 60 years, which is very close to the period the New Testament was completed, which is within 60 years after the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ.

     

  9. 10 minutes ago, H B Lowrey said:

    To assert that I, or you, can or must explain any of that, asserts human beings own, per their male dominator god given hierarchy on planet earth, must have answers for everything.  The self-absorbed hubris of religiosos is astounding.  

    You are aware that the Bible, which goes back 3,500 years and was written by prophets and apostles who witnessed the power of God over a period of 1,500 years speaks completely against your position.

  10. 1 minute ago, H B Lowrey said:

    To assert that I, or you, can or must explain any of that, asserts human beings own, per their male dominator god given hierarchy on planet earth, must have answers for everything.  The self-absorbed hubris of religiosos is astounding.  

    So you admit you have no answer but you dismiss anyone else's belief that we had to have an intelligent designer when the evidence is all around you. 

  11. "19  Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. {in them: or, to them} 20  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"  Romans 1:19, 20 KJV

    This verse in the Bible points out the reality of God has been made known to mankind by the fact of the creation.  The obvious complexity of the creation demonstrates to man that it required an intelligent designer, an Almighty God, of infinite power (omnipotent), infinite knowledge (omniscient), and omnipresent.  This is the reason why it says "the fool hath said in his heart there is no God" Psalm 14:1 KJV  

  12. The issue is vaccines save many lives and prevent serious long term health problems caused by Covid.  The harm of vaccination is rare and the risk of not being vaccinated is far greater from Covid.  So what is society supposed to do?  Scare more people away from getting vaccinated?  That wouldn't make much sense.  Why promote anti-vaxxer's propaganda and nonsense.  There are more than enough vaccine hesitant people around and a lot of them have been frightened by misinformation and fear mongering anti-vaxxers.

  13. 43 minutes ago, myata said:

    Right and with any and every medication till now you, an individual not the specialist have the final decision on what will and will not be put into your body. Did you forget that already, or what honestly?

    I never said you didn't have the final decision.  Why are making false accusations?  Calm down.

  14. 3 hours ago, Aristides said:

    I understand alright.

    That's why we have medical specialists.  We let them advise and decide what we put in our bodies, be it by injection or mouth.  There are risks and side effects with practically every medication.  The doctors and specialists are the ones who decide whether the benefits outweigh the risks.

  15. 11 hours ago, Aristides said:

    Don't give me that vaccine that has been taken by hundreds of millions over the past year, give me  that drug which has just been approved and has  many interactions and side effects. It has to be safer.?

    I guess you are correct.  Paxlovid could be dangerous.  If a person is double or triple vaccinated, it may be better to just forget taking it, unless they fit into certain categories and have been approved.  Not sure why they bring it in as a panacea for millions of people.  I know of a couple people who only had a runny nose and bit of sore throat for a couple days and then they were ok.  One was tested positive for Covid.  They are both self isolating. The other had no test yet. They were both fully vaccinated.  So it looks like it may not usually be that serious for a lot of people.  Not necessary in that case to take Paxlovid and probably not a good idea either.  Very risky.  I am not sure about older people, say over 80.  They are recommending it can be taken by certain categories of people.  Not sure how that is decided.

  16. On 1/17/2022 at 5:08 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:
    • Those who are moderately to severely immunocompromised and “not expected to mount an adequate response” to COVID infection “regardless of vaccine status.”
    • Individuals over 80 years old “whose vaccinations are not up to date.”
    • Individuals over 60 years old who live in “underserved rural or remote communities” in a “long-term care setting” or those living in or from First Nations or Metis communities “whose vaccinations are not up to date”

    https://globalnews.ca/news/8516531/canada-approved-paxlovid-pfizers-new-oral-covid-pill-what-you-need-to-know/

     

    This is a prescription drug which could make it even more difficult to obtain as it takes weeks to see many doctors.  They have to be taken within 5 days of symptoms onset.  Yet Government is saying one must also have a Covid test to qualify.  Test kits are in short supply in some places and hard to obtain in other places.  So how will that work?  How will the prescription part of the distribution work?  Sounds like they are placing various roadblocks in the way of people who may wake up one morning and find they have Covid symptoms.  How much do you want to bet we will be hearing of endless bungling of this?

    I stand to be corrected on this after reading all the hazards or possible side effect from Paxlovid.  It doesn't sound like something a vaccinated person should take.  People who have not been vaccinated or older people, etc. and are in serious danger may be in a different situation.

  17. 16 hours ago, dialamah said:

    The level of Qanon inspired 'facts" are pretty astounding on this forum.  There's not much point in presenting any other facts since they're rejected with the same enthusiasm devout Christians reject any suggestion that God did not create everything.

    Why do you bring God into the discussion in a negative way?  It should be obvious God created the universe and everything in it.  Do you have a better explanation?  Why do you allow yourself to be influenced by the wacko God / Bible deniers?

    • Thanks 1
  18. 3 minutes ago, Winston said:

    Reread what I wrote, I accused you of not having an honest discussion. I am quite sure you honestly believe in a god.

    It becomes a dishonest discussion to expect science to provide evidence but not creationism.

    You are missing the possibility that apparent complexity is from the system, not a designer. 

    Having the premise that an intelligent design created the universe is extremely complex, you would have to show how something that operates in time and space can manufacture time and space?

    In this case tell me why I can not just assert that I created the universe and everything, including you? Or do you agree that I can assert that I created everything? 

     

    You know how god operates yet you can not explain the method by which god creates.

    But I can just show that a grain of sand as complex as it may be is just pure physics at work, no designer required. 

     

    No, it is not dishonest to say God created everything without having to explain how he created it.  As I explained God did not choose to explain how he did it.  It was obviously a supernatural act of God.  Why do you assume someone must explain it to you before you will believe it?  God is far above created man.  What gives anyone the right to demand to be told how God created everything?  We are mere created beings.  We have no rights beyond which our Creator gave us.  We need to know our place in the universe as such.

    You cannot just assert you created the universe simply because you are not God as I explained above.

    I do not know how God operates beyond what he has said in his revelation, the Bible.  I simply accept that he created everything that exists and he does not have to explain anything to me.  It is supernatural.

  19. This article has philosophical arguments for God.  the introduction says this:

    "Why think God exists? Skeptics often demand that theists need to conclusively prove that God is there before either of us can believe He is there. But just because I may not be able to convince a skeptic that God exists doesn’t mean I cannot know God exists. God can reveal Himself to people in numerous ways, some of which don’t involve arguments. For instance, the Spirit Himself testifies to Christians’ spirits that we are God’s children (Romans 8:16). And God can also withdraw knowledge of Himself (Romans 1:18–32). I don’t have to be a master debater for God to reveal himself to me sufficiently to know that He exists. See Agnosticism for more information.

    If an argument is sound and solid, it acts as a sign pointing to God.

    In fact, there is no such thing as a ‘conclusive proof’, if by this one means an argument that compels universal acceptance. No argument can make people believe its conclusion. Humans are not logic-chopping robots; they come with biases, experiences, and tastes that affect the way they view arguments. For instance, consider the contrast between C.S. Lewis, a former atheist who later embraced idealistic philosophy, and Antony Flew, a hard-nosed evidentialist philosopher. Lewis was convinced by the moral argument for God, which shows God to be the moral ideal: “it is more important that Heaven should exist than that any of us should reach it.”1 Flew rejected Lewis’ moral argument for God, although late in life he was convinced of deism by the argument from design. He adopted a ‘convince me with hard evidence’ stand (a position he apparently never abandoned).

    But if there are no conclusive proofs for God (in the above sense), what use are arguments for God? If an argument is sound and solid, it acts as a sign pointing to God. But signs only convey limited information, and people looking at a sign need to properly read and respond to the sign. A person who ignores a stop sign, or misreads a speed limit sign, will act accordingly. Their response may even have disastrous consequences. But that’s hardly the fault of the sign! In the same way, good arguments for God don’t have to tell us everything about God. Nor can we make people read and respond to them properly. All they offer is a public case commending belief in God as reasonable. And all we can do is faithfully portray the signs. We plant and water, but only God can give the increase (1 Cor. 3:7).

    As such, when reading these arguments below, it must be understood that they are offered in that very spirit. They are not conclusive proofs, but signs pointing to God, showing at the very least that belief in Him is reasonable, if not rationally obligatory."

    For the whole article and the actual philosophical arguments go to:

    Arguments for God - creation.com

  20. 6 hours ago, Winston said:

    The fundamental issue is that these religious debates are not honest. 

    For example blackbird asked for my perspective on how the universe started, but does not want to discuss the perspective beyond an intelligent designer. Furthermore the same level of evidence is not applied to "god" vs required by science. 

    Eventually they come down to make an assertion that god exists because without god there would be no universe. The amount of circular reasoning becomes frustrating and potentially pointless to discuss. 

    Overall why waste our limited time? 

    Accusing me of not being honest is a very poor argument.   You know very well I have told you I believe that it took an intelligent designer to create the complex universe we live in.  I gave you many examples of the complexity of it which I believe is evidence of an intelligent designer.  But your argument is that I must provide proof of how a complex part of the universe or a complex life form such as a cell was created by God.  I explained to you God did not tell us how he created the universe.  He only told us he did create it in the book of Genesis.  So there is absolutely nothing dishonest about my saying that.  It is just a simple fact which you refuse to accept as a reasonable belief. 

    It is you who demand some kind of scientific proof that God created everything.  All I have is the evidence of the created universe which the Bible points out should be sufficient.  If you don't accept that it is entirely your choice.  You have been taught and cling to the idea that nothing should be accepted unless it fits into some kind of "scientific methodology".  There are things in life that do not fit into the paradigm of mainstream science, things such as good versus evil, love, feelings, and what humans consider as morals.  The question of why the universe even exists or why mankind exists does not fit into any science paradigm.  You cannot fit a lot of things into the science paradigm.  You want to fit how God created everything into some kind of scientific methodology or you reject the claim that God created everything.  That is not how God has chosen to operate.  Belief in creationism is based on faith in the written revelation and a rational belief that a complex result had to have intelligence behind it.

  21. 13 hours ago, eyeball said:

    I recall reading Pat Robertson describing Heaven as being just like Sunday school that goes on forever. I'm trying to imagine my state of mind after 478 billion years or so of singing Shall We Gather At The River knowing forever is still just getting started.

    At least when Hell freezes over it's a matter of when not if. That sounds like the better deal I think.

    Considering we are talking about where one spends eternity, either heaven or hell, I think if that's what Pat Robertson said, he is way out of wack. 

    One website says this about heaven:

    quote

    Biblical Description of Heaven

    1 Corinthians 2:9-10 says, “The things God has prepared for those who love him” are “revealed to us by his Spirit.” To counter false, unbiblical notions, we need to study and meditate on “words taught by the Spirit” (1 Corinthians 2:13). Our eternal home is a real place (John 14:1-3) where we will reside in real, physical bodies (1 Corinthians 15) and where we will experience everlasting joys, rewards, and treasures (Matthew 5:12; Matthew 6:19-20; Luke 6:23).

    God dwells there (Revelation 21:3) and the light of Jesus will permeate every corner of this place (Revelation 22:5). Charles Spurgeon said, “To the lover of Jesus it is very pleasant to observe how the Lord Jesus Christ has always stood foremost in glory from before the foundation of the world and will do so as long as eternity shall last.”

    We shall see the Lord “face-to-face” (1 Corinthians 13:12). The fact that our all-knowing, all-powerful Creator will dwell with us and we shall know him in an even more intimate way should be sufficient for the true Christian to rest assured that they will be satisfied there, but the Bible gives us many other glimpses of what this place will be like.

    1. Eradication of evil. Jesus promised that when he returns, he will send out his angels to “weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil,” and “then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father” (Matthew 13:41-43).

    Picture your favorite place on earth. Now imagine that place completely free from any of the unpleasantries that make you feel sad, uncomfortable, or anxious. Perfect righteousness and justice reign supreme. Every shred of evil has been completely eliminated and, instead, will be the opposite of anything that causes displeasure.

    Revelation says:   " 4  And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. " Revelation 21:4 KJV

    I'm sure heaven will be a paradise of eternal happiness and joy.

    There are many websites that describe what heaven will be like.

    What Is Heaven Like According to the Bible? (christianity.com)

    ________________________________________________________________

    Hell on the other hand:

    "We can be assured that hell is a terrible, terrifying place. Some punishments in hell the Bible describe include: smoke of their torment, no rest day or night, weeping and gnashing of teeth, tormented, death, and destruction. Possibly the most terrifying aspect of hell is its duration. The suffering is eternal and has no end."

    What Does the Bible Say Hell Will Be Like? - Beliefnet

    Bible verses related to Hell from the King James Version (KJV) by Relevance

     - Sort By Book Order

    Revelation 21:8 - But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

    John 3:16-18 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.   (Read More...)

    Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    Revelation 20:15 - And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

    Matthew 25:46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

    Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

    Mark 9:43-48 - And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:   (Read More...)

    Matthew 13:50 - And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

    Revelation 20:14 - And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

    2 Thessalonians 1:9 - Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

    Revelation 20:10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

    Psalms 145:20 - The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy.

    Matthew 5:22 - But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

    Hebrews 10:26-31 - For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,   (Read More...)

    Revelation 14:11 - And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

    Luke 16:19-31 - There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:   (Read More...)

    Luke 12:5 - But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.  Unquote

    We can see why some would deny the truth or authenticity of the King James Bible.  

     

     

  22. My own view is that God is revealed in the Holy Scriptures, specifically the King James Bible and was revealed in human flesh in the person of Jesus Christ 2,000 years ago.  In summary the Bible teaches Adam and Eve fell from a perfect relationship they had with God in the garden of Eden when they ate the forbidden fruit in the garden.  This is related in the first chapters of Genesis.  As a result they and all their descendants, which includes us, therefore received a corrupt fallen nature and a heart that the Bible says is desperately wicked.  This is because Adam and Eve were the legal and actual heads or representatives of the human race.  This means we are separated from God and sin and evil entered into the world. The central story of the Bible is how God sent a Savior for fallen sinful mankind.  The prophecies in the Old Testament point to the coming of Jesus Christ in the New Testament.  Jesus is the Son of God who was sent by God to earth for the central purpose of suffering and dying on the cross as an atonement for our sins.  He was raised from the dead for our justification.  The Bible says whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord (Jesus Christ) shall be saved. (Romans ch10).  By receiving Jesus as one's personal Savior and believing he died for us personally, we are immediately forgiven for all of our sins, past, present and future, and we immediately receive eternal life.   No other religion has anything like this.  When we die, we can know that we have become a child of God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and will live with him forever.  After Jesus was crucified, three days later, he was raised from the dead and as the Bible says, he was seen by many eye witnesses.  So we must believe that he died for our sins and that he was raised from the dead.  That is called Justification, a central doctrine of the Christian faith.  More information can be seen on various websites, sermons, etc.  This link gives some authenticity of the Bible:

    Compelling Evidence of the Authenticity of the Bible – peterpilt

    The gospel of John is a good one to read for the first time as it makes it clear.  Salvation is entirely by faith, not of works lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

    This link also explains it well:

    What Must I Do to be Saved? (gospeltractandbible.org)

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